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Proceedings of Parliament. 29

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10 HOUSE OF COMMONS.

the number of carriages and servants,

and upon Pthe lower in proportion to 09 03 D-MondayMay 19.

their rank in life, and the number of TAX ON PRIVATE BREWING.

iudividuals who compose their families, Na Committee of Ways

and Means, upon the following scale, viz. Lort Henry Petty:blought forsi ardia Every family paying the day on a sú bxtiru tetofor the tax onsd pigs - aron, foursavheeled carriage, and xwhich he said he would relinquish, fram i servant, to pay a commutation for every the strony opposition s'had met with. male in such family, of il. is. z for every On giving an attentived fisideration fernale, tos. 64. g families, not paying to those objects, which prontised to be for a four-wheeled carriage, but assessed productive, and were likely to fill the for one male seivant, tų pay for each lightest up in those who were to be male, 135. , every female, 7s: 6d.; fami. iminediately subject to the impost, he Ties pot assessed for servanta

but considered private, brewing as one of paying tlie assessed taxes, for every e the faiest. The private brewers not inale, ios ; every female, ss.; persons withstanding her paid the duty on Malt, only paying the lowest order of asseshad istilit considerable advantago yoter sed taxes, and charged with the winthe public retteraria Private brewing dow tax,7 males, 5sa females, 2$. 6d. Was-cattred-on to such air extent, and 5 All children under ten years old exceptproduced so great a saving to those ed; and also 'allithe lower orders of the who adopred it, that

it greatly lessened labouring poor; and all person's not paythe duties paid by the public brewers; ting assessed taxes, and who may choose he, therefore, conceived the country

to

exempt. had a right to look to the private The number of persons liable to this obrewer asia fair subject of taxation; but tax, he calculated upon the following

atashe same time, the taxl.he proposed scale ;-First class, 12,000 ; second class, ywould be so moderate as still to leave -50,000; third closs, 360,000; fourth - the object of it is possession of consider- class, 320,000. All persons who were

able advalitages. It was difficult to averse to the exciseman's visits would
obrain any precise data 'upon which to avail themselves of the modification he

calculate with exactitess: But to take proposed, and by delivering in their
the best he could find, viz. the malt lists, according to the foregoing scale;
charged with the mait duties, it appear-enable the collector to ascertain their
ed, thal: 7.50,000 quarters were consum. respective proportions without farther
ed by the private brewer, which, rated trouble to themselves
in the scale be was about to ripropose,

"This tax was likewise objected to by íwould produce about .500,000l. The Mr Rose, Mr Giles, Sir R. Buxton, and scalei of taxation was estimated from Sir C. Pole. The latter suggested, as the most reasonable calculation upon a succedaneum, a tax on the race of the probable consumption of each fami- strapping six foot high Men Milliners, ly, and their respective rank and abili- " who crowd the shops in town. Mr was the farthest wish from his to "gestion, wished extend to the expose the private brewer to any ob whole race of those effeminate beings, in trusion of the excise officer into his the shape of men, who precluded so family, he would shape the tax iu such many thousands of deserving females * a svayı as to enable every man, iby pay from an honest livelihood. As to the a ing a fair and reasonable commutation, tax proposed by the Noble Lord, he

to avoid a necessity so obnoxious. The had not the slightest objection to it so far tax would be assessed upon à scale of as it affected himself, but she would not proportion with the other assessed taxes; go quite so far on the behalf of his upon the bighest orders, according to constituents at Stafford, many of whom July 1806.

1/

were

were poor, but honest, industrious men,

Wednesday May 28. who were in the habit of brewing a little ale for their own families; they

CHARGE against MARQUIS WELLESLEY. certainly brewed a very good sort ; Mr Paul, after a few introductory and he must do them the justice to say, words, laid on the table a paper which that they did ample justice to their own "he stated to be articles of charge of brewing. He therefore could have high crimes and misdemeanours against wished the noble lord had commenced the Marquis of Wellesley, with respect his scale of the tax a little higher in to bis treatment of the Nabob of Oude. society. The resolution was however These charges entered at great agreed to.

length into the conduct of the Noble PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.

Marquis, from his first arrival at LuckLord H. Petty then moved for and now, the capital of the province of Oude, obtained leave to bring in a bill for bet in 1798; and seemed chiefly to accuse ter regulating the public accounts in the his Lordship of oppression, and breach West Indies. He prefaced his motion of faith, with the Nabob. In describ. by a long detail of the measures in con ing the state of Oude at the time of the templation for the better management Marquis's arrival, Lucknow, the capi. of the public accounts in general. It tal, was represented as being as popu. appeared that very little had been done lous as London and Westminister, and towards examining the public accounts the province itself as large as England since the American war. The evils, and Wales. The Nabub was in the indeed, for which a remedy is now pro possession of an immense revenue, posed, are of a much older date. Mr could take the field with soo elephants, Pitt early saw and attempted to reme. 13,000 horse, and 13,000 foot, and had, dy them. In 1785 he appointed five in jewels only, to the amount of four Commissioners for the examination of millions, sterling money. the public accounts; their labours were Mr Francis said, that every thing in productive of much advantage; but India depended on the power of the that and the other Boards which have sword; but it was of the British sword. hitherto conducted this important branch Those Indian Princes had obtained their of the public business, whether from sovereignties in consequence of the parsome defect in the original constitution, tial dissolution of the Mogul Empire. the want of sufficient powers to pursue But however they held their tenures, inquiry with effect, or the immensity he contended, whether they had obtain. of the labour they had to perform, have ed them justly or unjustly, was not now been found totally inadequate to the the question ; they had held them for a task.

series of years; they had held them by The remedy proposed by Lord Henry our authority ; by every authority that Petty is to appoint a Board of ten Mem.' was respectable in this country. We bers, to whom it is proposed to assign had guaranteed them in this possession three different departments of this by repeated treaties, which good faith service.---1. For the examination and certainly required us to keep. He close of all the Military Accounts which thought we ought to enter on the dis. had been entered upon, but not con cussion whenever it should come before cluded.--2. For the examination of all the House under this conviction. We the Accounts in arrear, which had not had entered into treaties with them as yet been taken up mor entered upon at independent powers, and were, of course, all. And, 3. for the examination of all bound to consider them as such. the Army Accounts, from the 31st of Mr Fox acknowledged, that there was December last; and to go on with the no principle more universal, than that actual Expenditure of the Nation, so as the powers whose independence you to subject it to a constant, progressive, guarantee by treaty should be treated and immediate audit. . After the pre as independent in the execution of any sent pressure of business has subsided, such treaty. In respect to the States the ten Commissioners are to be redu. of Europe, and those of India, there ced to six, and the three Boards convert might, perhaps, be some difference as to ed into one.

feeling, but there could be none as to

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principle. The power of the sword was else could they place it so safely? But in no case to be justified in the violation they find got only security, but specu. of treaties. Were it, however, allow. lation. The interest of this money is, able to have any prepossession on the however, spent in France, and for the subject, he owned there might be one support of our inveterate enemy. And case in which he might less violently how is it possible, even if the principle oppose it ; not certainly in the case of were just, to distinguish between real Great Britain, but in the case of the and pretended foreign property? If weak against the strong. Without en. that could be done, perhaps the real tering into the question, he observed, foreign property would not be worth that where we had decided every thing

the attention that I am bestowing upon by treaty, our obligations became the it. Mr Francis here adverted to the stronger.

great sums of money that were sent over The paper was ordered to be printed to this country confidentially, by unforPROPERTY Tax Bill.

tunate people who were obliged to emi

grate, and to the flagitious use that was Lord Henry Petty moved the order of in some cases made of that confidence. the day for the third reading of the pro The present clause, he said, would lay perty tax bill.

the ground of similar iniquities, perjury, Mr Vansittart moved certain clauses and crimes. by way of riders. The first for exempt. He then read a clause of an article of ing Commissioners of the income tax agreement made with the contractors from being parish officers, or obliged to for the loan in the time of Queen serve on juries.-Agreed to. The se Anne, and which he said was continued cond, that the assessments should not be in all the subsequent contracts, stipususpended on account of the former as. lating that no charge, tax, &c. should sessments not being completed.

be levied on their annuities. But these Mr Johnstone conceived this clause to contracts, as far as they were specific, create a very great hardship, in obliging have been violated. It is saying, with people in one year to pay 164 per cent. you, who are British subjects, we will on their whole incomes.

110t perform our contract; but to you, The

ection was answered by Lord who are foreigners, we will remit cerH. Petty and Mr Vansittart, who thought, tain dues. Are not these foreigners if it were not so, a bonus would be bound, according to their means, to supgiven to those who had evaded the as port the Government which protects sessment.

them? But of all arguments, it appear. This clause was also agreed to, as ed to him to be the strangest to say, were also another, brought up by Mr that because they were not represented, Vansittart, for facilitating the assess they should on that account not be liable ments for former years, and a clause to pay taxes. That would certainly for enabling the India Company to stop not be the argument of those who were the tax from the interest of bonds is. for taxing America. He had himself sued after the 30th September 1806. belonged to the society of “ the Friends

Mr Francis said, that an Hon. Mem of the People," and was one of the last ber, had remarked, that unless they were of them. They had petitioned the House exempted from this tax, foreigners for a reform in. Parliament, and stated, would withdraw their money from the that the people of England were not funds. With respect to that question, adequately represented, but they never he would inquire into the policy of it. stated, nor never thought, that they The capital vested in the name of fo should not pay taxes. In that society reigners on the 6th of this month would

were the present Lord Chancellor of produce a tax of between 40 and 50,00ol. England, the First Lord of the Admi. per ann, and it is increasing every day; ralty, the Treasurer of the Navy, and so that what you are going to give up almost all those who were now high in will, in reality, soon amount to 100,000l. his Majesty's Administration. The preannually. The money of foreigners is sent state of the country should also be here in a state of security, and they considered, when it was impossible to will not draw it out of the funds mere. collect a tax that would not wring from ly on account of paying the tax. Where the poor what they could not afford to

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give. To abandon 100,000l. per annum a portion of this money. Another arguto foreigners, at such a time, would be ment might be made use of against the most grating to their feelings. At pre- justice of the measure.

The money sent they were in despair; unless used arising from this tax was expended in with great tenderness, they might be raising and supporting an army and navy, driven to madness. He concluded by the principal object of which was to demoving for the expunging of the clause. stroy France : so that the foreigner

Mr Fox admitted the disinterestedness might exclaim, that a part of his proper. of his Hon. Friend (Mr Francis) in ty had been seized on for the purpose bringing forward his motion, and hop- of enabling England to take possession ed he would do those with whom he of the remainder. had the honour to act equal justice, by As to what the Hon. Gentleman had believing, that in postponing this clause, said on the subject of representation, no they could not have been influenced by

one who had said, that the represenany particular tenderness to foreigners. tation of the country was inadequate, He thought it would be extremely im- except perhaps a few eccentric men, politic to discourage foreigners from had denied that the people owed obevesting their money in the funds. The

dience to that House as their represen. sum said to be vested in their names, tatives. The very phrase inadequate re. he must conceive, was exaggerated. It presentation proved, that the friends of was at all events only matter of opinion. reform conceived, that the people were The system, he would not deny, might represented, that the virtual represenbe open to fraud, but it did not appear tation, indeed, was not complete, and that any had been practised. If his that it ought to approach more to what Right Hon. Friend were to vest nis was real. Every person with whom he property in the funds in the name of had been connected, disclaimed the idea any foreigner, and he were to die, the of universal suffrage, but he did not property would

to the heirs of that know on what the constitution of the foreigner, according to the French, or country depended, if the people were Dutch, or any other foreign laws.-- not considered as virtually represented With respect to the contract which his in Parliiment. It was because America Hon. Friend mentioned in the time of was neither virtually nor really repreQueen Ann, he was ready to admit that sented in Parliament, and that the Amesomething had been done, which, with. ricans had no complete communion of out a strained construction, might be interests with this country, that our considered as a tax upon funds. But in right to tax America was denied ? that it the assessed, income, and property du. was on precisely the same grounds that ties, the tax was never laid as on fund he now objected to taxing the propered property. If laid upon foreigners, ty of foreigners in our funds. He never however, it could not be laid in any could agree with the Hon. Gentleman, other manner than as a tax upon the funds. that Parliament had a right to tax this The arguments with respect to foreign. property, because they had a power; ers, he thought, were in some respects and confessed that he was of the same invidious. Would they not be able to aid opinion with Lord Thurlow, who said, the enemy more with their capital than that he did not understand that species the interést? And can you hinder its of right, which, the moment it was done, going to the enemy, unless you con was a wrong. It was impossible that fiscate it all? Gentlemen should, in or 'the House could vote away money that der to be assured that they were pro did not belong to them ; and this appearmoting justice, suppose themselves, not ed from the act itself, the words of only in the place of others, but in the

“ We give and grant to his place of an enemy.

The Hon. Gentle. Majesty so much money," which neces. man need not be afraid, that this mo. sarily implied, that it belonged to the ney would be pockered by the indivi. donors ; and his Majesty's answer in redual, without being subject to any tax; ceiving it is, “ that he accepts it from there was, he believed, a property tax his faithful subjects.” The Government in France, as well as in England; and could not tax the country, it was the in ever country in Europe there was people that taxed themselves; by the some kind of a which would seize on constitution they had a right to give

their

which were,

their own, but not that which belonged the principal was gone, spend the reto others; or, in other words, they had mainder of their lives in workhouses. no right to give away any part of the He had made a calculation, by which it property of those who were not repre would appear, that the number of stock. sented in Parliament, and whose inte holders having incomes under sol. a. Tests were not only not the same, but year, amounted to 220,000l, Ali ibese totally different. There was but one would now be liable to pay 10 per cent. opinion in the House, that the point of as well as the man who had so many taxation they had come to was truly la thousands. He would ask if this was inentable ; it was the opinion of all, that justice? The plan would make the the burden should be lightened on the funds lower, because poor people would poor as much as possible ; but he con dislike to put money there, and he did ceived that, to attain this end in any not think it would yield any revenue, degree, they should not be guilty of an because many of those who contributed injustice, they should keep their hands to the burdens of the state, would short. clean, and not detile them by giving ly themselves become burdensome. He away that which did not belong to them, thought the tax ought to have been infor the purpose of lightening the load creased on persons of large fortunes, so on the poor.

as to lighten it on small ones. Sir Robert Buxton said he musi enter Lord De Blaquiere asked if it was lihis solemn protest against the tax, as a beral or fair to enter protest against a measure that went to defeat its own bill after it had passed through all its object, and lay a grievous burden of 13 stages ? It had already received the sancinstead of 10 per cent. upon the landed tion of the House, and it ought not to interest. If it was to be considered as be sent into the world with a tin can. a land tax, let it have all the benefit of nister tied to its tail. a land tax, by being made only an an. Mr Vansittart said, if the documents nual measure.

before the House were examined, it Mr Vansittart and Lord H. Petty said, would be found that the higher classes it was so far annual, that it might be re were comparatively so few, that a great pealed at any time,

burden on them would not make up for Mr W. Smith could not let the bill the loss of revenue arising even from a pass without again giving his opinion slight alleviation exercised towards the on it. He said, that notwithstanding lower classes. any ameliorations it might have under. Mr Atkins Wright said, he knew of gone, there were still so many instances property in the funds possessed by perof injustice and inequality in the mea sons who received parish relief. Yet sure, that it should never meet with his this property would not be liable to the concurrence. He had, in general, no duty. objection to a tax on property. But a The bill was then passed. tax regulated like the presenț, was un. On the report of the Irish stamp duty equal and oppressive. An instance of bill, Sir John Newport moved a clause the kind had come to his knowledge to repeal that part of the former Irish that very day. He had a letter from stamp duty act, by which a newspaper some persons who declared the only in. was to be suppressed if the printer of it come they had was an annuity which should be absent ten days, or the prowould expire in 1808. And yet this an- prietor three months, from Ireland. nuity, which had a little more than two The House resolved itself into a comyears to run, would pay a duty of 10 mittee to consider of allowing salaries per cent.

This was only one among to the new Military Commissioners. various other instances he knew of, It was then agreed, on the motion of

Mr Huddlestone said, it would be im Mr Vansittart, that 15ool, a-year, during possible for the bill ever to operate. the time they were employed, be allowThe most grievous hardships would be ed to the Chief Commissioners, and sustained by persons having incomes 1000l, to the others; with an increased from the funds, under sol. a year. allowance in case of going abroad ; alThe effect would be, that many poor lowances to clerks, &c. people must sell their capital; and when

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