MR. M. T. BASS expressed regret that in a discussion of that kind the only way of abolishing difficulties between the Militia and the Line had never been referred to. In his opinion, the only way of meeting the difficulty was by a resort to a limited Ballot. perience of 1870, the House of Commons | number of Line officers to pass into the could not say that it would be satisfied Militia, these officers receiving half-pay with a 28 days', or even a three months' for a limited time. training, and he should be sorry to see 5,000 men added to such a force. The feeling of the House, however, was so manifestly against his Motion, that he thought it would be unfair to take up the time of the House by dividing upon it. At the same time he would venture to suggest to the Secretary of State that the bounty of 208. per man for recruiting into the Militia should not be continued. It was, in fact, a bounty for going into the Militia and not into the Regular Army. LORD EUSTACE CECIL said, he should like to know what time would be devoted to the training of Militia recruits? MR. CARDWELL said, that already a marked improvement had been made in the Militia by the training they had received. As to the remarks made by the hon. Member for Hackney, he thought the whole question of recruiting with regard to the Militia and the Line required continual watching. So far, however, from wishing to see a separation between the two branches of the service he was always glad to hear of an increase in the number of Militiamen joining the Line, and hoped some time to see but one system of recruiting, by which men should first enter the Militia, and afterwards be passed into the Line. With regard to the question of the Militia surgeons, to which the hon. Member for Galway (Mr. Mitchell Henry) had called attention, what he had said before was this-that if there proved to be a just case for compensation when the new system was carried into effect, the Government, and he had no doubt Parliament, would consider it; but it was not for him to give any pledge on the subject. LORD ELCHO said, he wanted to know whether there had been any such free interchange of officers between the Line and the Militia as the House had been led to expect when the question of the abolition of Purchase was under discussion, and whether any scheme of such interchange had been prepared? MR. CARDWELL said, it was proposed to give to every Militia regiment the opportunity of recommending one of its officers for a commission without purchase in the Line every year. It was also proposed to allow a certain LORD GARLIES said, he wished to ask the right hon. Gentleman, whether the officers who were to come from the Line into the Militia were to come as captains, field officers, or what? Such an introduction of Line officers would create great discontent among the officers of Militia over whose heads they would be put. COLONEL STUART KNOX said, he was of opinion that the proposed transfer would be of no great advantage to the Militia, as the really efficient officers of the Line would have no wish to retire. MR. CARDWELL said, that the interchange would only take place to a limited extent; and that the Militia had been placed entirely under the Commander-in-Chief and the general officer in command of the district, and they were about to be placed under the officer in charge of the brigade centres. MR. M. CHAMBERS, in allusion to the remark of the hon. Member for Derby (Mr. M. T. Bass) said, that if ever we were to have a Ballot, from the highest to the lowest should be included from the Duke to the agricultural labourer. And if the higher classes were included they should not be permitted to purchase substitutes. He detested the notion of a Ballot for persons who were not inclined to enlist; nor did he think there could be any necessity for it. In the time of our Great War there was a ballot for Militiamen, but it did not apply to men of rank or riches, and if by chance they got included, substitutes were allowed to be obtained. As long as he was a Member of the House of Commons, so long would he protest against a ballot compelling young men to go into the Militia, unless every man, from the Peer to the peasant, was included. What did his hon. Friend mean by a "limited ballot?" Did he mean that a great man was to have the power to buy a substitute? It was nonsense to think of making soldiers of the Militia by 14 or 21 days' drill, and the Government ought to have the courage to incur the expense of keeping them out for a longer period. They were good soldiers when they were embodied, at the time of the Peninsular and Crimean Wars, and it was as a constitutional Force and the great feeder of the Army that we ought to regard the Militia. Dressed in a coarse, dirty crimson cloth, which looked as if it had been dyed in a brickfield, the poor wretched creatures knew that they were objects of ridicule, and felt ashamed of their profession; but if the men were called out for a longer period, made efficient and dressed respectably, they would take that pride in their profession without which they could not become good soldiers. MR. M. T. BASS promised to give his hon. and learned Friend a satisfactory explanation respecting his allusion to the limited ballot. SIR HENRY STORKS said, a Committee composed of Militia officers, and including two Members of that House and one Member of the House of Lords, had been sitting upon the question of clothing of the Militia, and had recently reported. But as it was thought desirable that the question of clothing generally should be taken into consideration, no decision upon that Report had been taken at present, but some resolution would be come to on an early day. MR. MUNTZ said, he must, in a word, answer the attack of his hon. Friend, the Member for Hackney as to his rejoicing in the abolition of billeting. He did rejoice in that step, and when that part of the Secretary of State for War's scheme came into operation he had no reason to doubt that the calculations on which it was based would turn out correct. He was always in favour of an increased Militia, and when it was perfectly organized it would be found that we could dispense with a considerable portion of our Standing Army. Motion, by leave, withdrawn. Original Question put, and agreed to. (5.) £79,700, Yeomanry Cavalry. MR. NEVILLE-GRENVILLE complained that while Volunteer adjutants had 10s. a-day, 18. for servants, 28. for forage, and 28. for lodgings, with other advantages, Yeomanry adjutants had to be content with 88. a-day and 28. for Mr. M. Chambers forage. They ought to be put upon the same footing. THE EARL OF YARMOUTH took the same view, and said that two regiments of Yeomanry were without adjutants in consequence of the loss to which competent men would subject themselves if they accepted the appointment. Several officers had refused the position in the regiments to which he referred. MR. HOLMS said, the difficulty arose from there being too many distinctive Forces, and suggested there should be an amalgamation between the Yeomanry and Volunteers. MR. CARDWELL said, some arrangement would be made to meet the case corresponding with what was done with regard to the officers of the Militia. Supernumerary officers would be appointed to hold the adjutancy, receiving the pay of their rank. LORD ELCHO said, the Committee of which he had the honour to be a Member was distinctly of opinion that the adjutants of Militia should be put on the same footing as the adjutants of Volunteers. The Yeomanry and Volunteers could not be amalgamated, as the hon. Member for Hackney had suggested, without entirely recasting the Force, because the Militia were paid and the Volunteers were not. He wished the Secretary for War would carry out his own intentions and make the Yeomanry more like the old dragoons, or like the Hampshire Horse. The opinion of distinguished Artillery officers, who had seen the Hampshire Force at drill, was unanimously in favour of the number being increased, and the importance of such a force in arresting the progress of an enemy through the country. At present there were only 40, and unless something was done they would soon disappear entirely from The Army List. This, he believed would be a great misfortune, not because of their number, but because they formed a nucleus which might be rendered valuable, and he trusted, therefore, that his right hon. Friend would turn his attention to the subject and do what he could to prevent such a result. Vote agreed to, (6.) Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £473,200, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge for Volunteer Corps, which will come in course of payment from the 1st day of April 1872 to the 31st day of March 1873, inclusive." principle or object upon which the new code was based was a right one-namely, the attainment of a higher standard of COLONEL C. H. LINDSAY rose to efficiency than at present existed-and call attention to the critical position in he should be glad to see it higher than which the Volunteer service has been it was, if it could be accomplished withplaced in consequence of various rules out prejudice. But he had always mainand regulaions which have recently been tained, and did still, that in the absence issued for its guidance, being prejudicial of privileges and inducements in time of to that character and condition of that peace-such, for instance, as exemption service; and to move, That the Vote be from the Militia, ballot, and serving on reduced by the sum of £2.000, on ac- juries it was impossible, even if the count of miscellaneous charges. The hon. enrolments were to be maintained at and gallant Gentleman said, nothing but their minimum. Indeed, he had always a sense of duty which he felt he owed to considered what he might call the poputhe great cause of national defence had lar opinion so often expressed upon the prompted him to put the Motion on the necessary increase of Volunteer efficiency Paper; but as one of many commanding to be superficial, and as evincing a want officers who had had some considerable of due reflection; for it was obvious that share in the rise, progress, and develop-in a service composed as it was of men of ment of the Volunteer service, the com- business, whose time was not their own, position and constitution of which had any attempt to enforce rules which the been familiar to everyone for the last 12 right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of or 13 years, and as some violent, and, as State for War had often been told could he thought, unnecessary changes had re- not be complied with, without prejudice cently been introduced into the system to the business habits and calling of the upon which it had hitherto successfully members, would create dissatisfaction worked, he desired to express his opinion and discontent, and consequent disaster. and with all respect, upon what he thought He might be told that there was no such was the critical position of the service, in thing as compulsion laid down in the consequence of the arbitrary and preju- new code. That was true in the strict dicial character of those changes. It sense of the word; but it was tantamount appeared to him, then, that the time had to compulsion if the inability for men of arrived when there should be some clear business to comply at times with the understanding between the Government vital requirements of the code involved and the commanding officers of Volun- the most serious and degrading conseteer regiments, as to the real position quences to the position of every regiwhich they were intended to hold for the ment or corps-consequences which, he future, as men who were still devoting should say, no commanding officer could their time and their money for the credit be prepared to meet, and retain his comof their country. That was the question, mand. Now, there was a stale argument and upon its solution would depend what which was so often thrown in one's teeth, action they might deem it expedient to and it was this-that because the Voluntake. It was not difficult to imagine teer service received a certain amount of what effect the new Regulations to which aid from the State it should be, as a he especially took exception would have matter of course, more amenable to a upon the future condition of the Volun- discipline of some sort which was to teer service; for he ventured to say that raise the standard of efficiency-which if they were enforced as they now stood, meant more frequent and more fully atthere would not be half-a-dozen regi- tended parades and drills. Now, he held ments in London, or many more than that that this argument was untenable, bein the country, in a creditable existence cause the capitation grant was given as by the end of the year. He confessed a recognition of loyalty and patriotism he was alarmed at the compulsory cha- already displayed, which was considered racter of some of the changes, inasmuch to be worth the expenditure, and not as as there were two death-warrants, so to a retaining fee for an impossible inspeak, contained in the new code to crease of efficiency in time of peace. He which he should direct the attention of considered that such rules as those to the Committee. In the first place, he which he was taking exception were readily admitted that the fundamental framed upon superficial knowledge which VOL, CCXII. [THIRD SERIES.] F was no knowledge at all, and the result was a pressure which amounted to compulsion. Commanding officers felt, or ought to feel, that the Government was legislating upon a wrong principle, by making the good and true suffer for the shortcomings of the careless and worthless; whereas if the Government really wished to maintain the force in its integrity and its highest probable efficiency, they should, at all events, take the commanding officers into their counsel, and gain valuable information which would convince them of the existence of so many difficulties which crop up at every turn, and the impossibility of removing them. Now, it appeared to him that if commanding officers were to be tied and bound in the manner suggested, the great majority of them would exclaim"relieve us of our position; we are unable, with any credit to ourselves or satisfaction to the Government, to cooperate with the right hon. Gentleman upon the terms which he has laid down in his new code." Now, that was the document which, as he thought, contained the death-warrant of some of their best regiments in London. The document was headed Auxiliary and Reserve Forces Circular, with a superscription to the effect that it was dated 28th of May, and that it was to be understood to take effect from the 1st of April; and as it was not issued until the 5th of June, he should be able to show that it was an unfortunate arrangement if it were enforced. It was not his intention to criticize the regulations which referred to the regimental officers of the Volunteer service, because he did not think there was any undue pressure put upon them as regarded their proficiency as officers, provided that it was not overstrained; but he must refer to Clause 31, paragraph 1, which provided that captains of companies of consolidated battalions were to have the power of ordering their own company drills and parades without reference to the commanding officers of those battalions. He would at once ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he really intended that rule to apply to consolidated battalions, or only to corps of administrative battalions? and he would be glad if he would inform him before he proceeded. MR. CARDWELL said, it was equally intended to apply to consolidated battalions as far as he understood it. Colonel C. H. Lindsay COLONEL C. H. LINDSAY said, if that were so, it would be a most unfortunate arrangement, for it would give the power to the captains to order their parades irrespective of their commanding officer, which would upset the regimental system and prejudice the commanding officer's position, which must never be interfered with; besides which it would defeat the great object which the right hon. Gentleman had in view— namely, the raising the standard of efficiency; as it would interfere with the attendance at the battalion parades, and tend to reduce the standard of efficiency-for he maintained that men of business could not spare more than a certain amount of time for drill and parade in the course of the year. With respect to the rules with regard to Quartermasters, he did not consider there was any undue pressure. But with respect to the Medical Officers, he was at a loss to conceive why a body of gentlemen who were, under the existing system, necessary to the establishment of their regiment-gentlemen of high class professional attainments, and who were by no means easy to obtain-he was at a loss to conceive why those officers were suddenly to be called upon to undergo additional tests to those which gave them their diplomas for medicine and surgery, when they entered their profession-for he found, in Clause 31, paragraph 5, that they were to be examined before a board of the principal medical officers of the district, and two other Army medical officers. Now, he considered that that raised an important and delicate question, and one which would deprive the service of valuable men, whom it would be very difficult to replace. And it was one which appeared to him to display a want of knowledge of the professional responsibilities of medical men who were civilians; and, from what he understood, they would not be likely to submit to any test examinations for commissions which they felt and had expressed to be unbecoming their status in the profession : he felt no doubt, therefore, that if that rule were enforced their services would not be much longer at the disposal of the commanding officers. Then he found in Clause 43, paragraph 1, under the head of medical attendance, that the surgeon was to attend professionally the adjutant and his family, and the as sistant-surgeon to attend the sergeantinstructors and their families, and find medicines, receiving an allowance of 2d. a week for each person, the term family to include wife, unmarried daughters, and sons under 16 years of age; so that if that rule were enforced those gentlemen who were in full civil practice were to enter into a contract, as it were, with the Government, at the rate of 88. 8d. per head per annum, to attend upon an unlimited number of persons and find an unlimited quantity of medicine in the bargain. He thought it would be far better for the Government to pay the 2d. to the adjutant and his sergeants, and let them find their own medical advisers. It was for these reasons that he objected to the item of £2,600 for medical attendance. He had next a word to say respecting that important department, the Sergeant Instructors, to whom a whole clause of 18 paragraphs had been devoted. He was glad to find that they were left in the same position as before, and he trusted that their position might never be disturbed, notwithstanding what fell from the hon. Member for Kendal (Mr. Whitwell), and also the opinion that was expressed in the Report of the Organization Committee, which was published in February, Sction 26, page 6, which appeared to him to exhibit a want of knowledge of the duties they had to perform in the regiments to which they were attached; for it gave its opinion that the large staff of sergeants which would be attached to the depôt centres might be, for the sake of efficiency and economy, made available to a large extent in diminution of the numbers of Sergeants Instructors now employed in instruction to Volunteers, and it considered that the yearly drill of Volunteers should be concentrated within certain limits of time. He confessed that he also disliked the view which was taken by the same Committee on Section 28, which was to the effect that the captains of companies and corps should be responsible for the proper care of their arms, and drill their men at any time throughout the nontraining season. Now, the object of that was clear-namely, to do away with the Sergeant-instructors altogether. Now, he maintained that if such an idea were to be realized at any future time, it would simply convert the captains of companies and corps into so many acting sergeant-armourers and instructors, which would be by no means acceptable to those officers, who had already plenty to do if they did their duty, and who were already by no means easy to obtain. He also thought that the same Committee showed a singular want of reflection in the opinion it expressed in Section 29, to the effect that it was desirable that the arms of Volunteer corps should be stored at depôt centres. Now, everyone knew that, unless the men had their arms in their possession, a great falling off both at parades and at the butts would be the result; and the standard of efficiency instead of being raised, would be considerably lowered. He had now to allude to the death-warrants-as he must call them in the code-which were contained in Clauses 35 and 38, and as they were of the same character, he would take them together to save time. They alluded to the special brigade drills and the annual inspection. The one laid down that unless one-half of the enrolled men were present there should be a penalty, which was the forfeiture of the whole or a part of the capitation grant for the ensuing year; the other-namely, the inspection, that unless two-thirds of the enrolled members were present the inspection should be postponed. He had nothing to say against the requirement that Volunteer regiments should attend one or two special brigade drills in the year, or that they should be inspected at a given time and hour-indeed, as far as he was concerned, he should be better pleased to have half-a-dozen such drills in the course of the year-nor would he have objected had there been an instruction to the effect that if not less than one-half in one instance, and twothirds in the other were present, an unfavourable report would be made. But when the failure in obtaining those minima was to be visited by a tremendous penalty, he had no hesitation in denouncing such "hard-and-fast lines" as intolerable to Volunteers, and under which no regiment could continue to serve with credit to itself or to the country. And to render the position more alarming these Regulations were to take effect from a date considerably anterior to their publication and issue. What was the consequence? It was thisthat the various metropolitan regiments, with one or two exceptions, which had by order taken part in special brigade |