mulated much evidence as to the decora- | Central Hall in an improved style. If tion of their Hall, and Mr. Poynter had it was the wish of the Committee that told him that the mosaic in the Central that should be done, they had better Hall was a failure, that it was not properly strike out the item under discussion. executed, and that he would not recommend any more. Mr. Poynter suggested frescoes, and it seemed to be thought that, with new ingredients, frescoes could be made to last for ever. Glass had been put over the frescoes, which would undoubtedly preserve them, and it had been stated that it would be great extravagance to do away with the present decoration altogether, until they found whether or not some improvement could be made. He thought they ought to trust the right hon. Gentleman in this matter. MR. BERESFORD HOPE said, he must protest against the idea that by striking out this item, they would be substituting mere decoration for fine art; they were simply preferring one process of fine art to another. If it was supposed that the mistakes made in the frescoes might be avoided, was there not ground for expecting that the mosaics might also be improved? MR. ALDERMAN LUSK said, it was interesting to hear the authorities on art differing from each other. He had begun to find out that the art critics in that House were not such very distinguished authorities as he used to think they were, and he should like to see them, while they pretended to teach others, agreeing among themselves. He regretted that the Chief Commissioner did not persist in his intention of following the advice of the artists whose Report he had received. MR. COWPER - TEMPLE said, he was quite ready to trust the Chief Commissioner, if the right hon. Gentleman had an opinion upon the subject; but, if he had not, it would be better to rely upon common sense. The report on the decay of the frescoes was very valuable. The decay had been only partial, and, in a great degree, arose from the impurity of colours; and the gentlemen who made the Report suggested various methods in which mistakes might be avoided in future: it would be safe and right to entrust able painters with the task of continuing the fresco painting where it had been commenced. It was important, however, to avoid any retrograde movement, and as they had begun with mosaics in the Central Hall, it was advisable to go on with the work. The mosaic decoration being in its infancy was capable of much improvement, and was admirably suited to large buildings; and, therefore, he hoped the decoration for the Central Hall would be finished in the style which had al-dered, even assuming that they went on ready been adopted. MR. CAVENDISH BENTINCK said, he understood that Dr. Salviati was not satisfied with the execution of the work, therefore the most reasonable thing seemed to him to be that before they discontinued it, they should try if it would not succeed when the work was better executed. Let them see whether on the Continent, and more especially at Rome, improved methods could not be found of dealing with the subject. MR. AYRTON said, that there was great difficulty in going on with the glass mosaic, because Mr. Poynter declined to proceed with the designs; so that the whole matter must be carefully consi with the decoration of the Central Hall. LORD ELCHO said, that a Committee had been named to decide on the best toons, with a view of their being made more generally known, and he thought some very useful suggestions bearing on the question with which the Committee was dealing might come out of that inquiry. MR. AYRTON said, the Report of the Committee of eminent artists was laid on the Table and printed on Feb-mode of copying a portion of the carruary 12. He had asked their opinion upon the subject, because dissatisfaction had been expressed with the mosaic painting. Mr. Poynter had desired that some portions of it might be taken out, and other pieces substituted for it; but he thought such an attempt might not be successful. He did not wish to pledge himself to proceed exactly in the manner pursued with regard to this mosaic; but he thought it possible that they might complete the decoration of the Mr. Locke Question put, and agreed to. Original Question, as amended, put, and agreed to. (6.) £75,250, to complete the sum for the New Offices in Downing Street. MR. BAILLIE COCHRANE said, he wished to point out the great disadvantage there was in not having a comprehensive plan in dealing with those buildings. There was a sum of £37,000 on the Estimates for the annual hire of offices, which represented a capital of about £1,600,000, and if buildings had been erected for that sum most admirable offices might be secured for the money which was now expended in the shape of rent. He wished to know when the houses in Parliament Street in front of the new offices would be taken down, and whether they had been purchased? MR. AYRTON, in reply, said, that the £37,000 referred to by the hon. Member was laid out on the hire of offices not only in other parts of the metropolis, but in the country, which offices could not possibly be concentrated in Parliament Street. This Vote was for the completion of buildings now in course of erection on land acquired under several Acts of Parliament, and, therefore, they were only proceeding within the limits of the authority already given by Parliament in reference to the space between Whitehall Place and Charles Street. All the houses between Charles Street and Whitehall Place would be pulled down as soon as the new Home and Colonial Offices were complete. At present, they screened the works in progress, and were useful as offices for persons who must be in the neighbourhood. When those houses had been pulled down, the space they now occupied would belong to the Crown, and it would be competent to Parliament to deal with it as might be thought proper. But it did not follow that the ground would be given to the public of of the metropolis as a street, because that would bring all the noise and turmoil of the street close under the windows of the public offices. ["Oh, oh!"] Probably the space would be reserved. There was, however, a moral claim on the part of the parish to have as much space added to Parliament Street as the parish formerly occupied with King Street, and the claim would have to be aken into consideration. Still, he had no authority to give the space to anybody, for it belonged really to the House of Commons or the Crown. MR. BAILLIE COCHRANE said, that what he had complained of was that there was no comprehensive plan in VOL. CCXII. THIRD SERIES.] dealing with those improvements, and that the right hon. Gentleman did not know, even now, what he intended to do with the space. The noise of carriages passing would be heard as much in the offices if the space was planted with trees as if it was thrown into the street. MR. AYRTON replied, that all he proposed to do was to carry out the provisions of the Acts of Parliament on the subject. This property had been acquired under Acts of Parliament, and if anything more was required new Acts of Parliament would have to be passed for the purpose. MR. LOCKE said, he should like to know whether the Department of Works would inform the House, when the buildings in Parliament Street were pulled down, what they proposed to do with the vacant space? He was all the more anxious to have information on this point, because of the course which had been taken with respect to the reclaimed land on the Thames Embankment. The Government had misbehaved themselves in that matter, and would not make any alteration although a Committee of the House had decided what should be done. They had appointed another Committee on the subject, and the result would presently be seen. Was a large brick wall to be built in front of the new offices, or was the open space to be made use of for the purpose of widening the street? LORD JOHN MANNERS said, the complaint of the hon. Member for the Isle of Wight (Mr. B. Cochrane) was founded on strict justice. It was impossible for great public works to be commenced in a particular method by one Government and carried on in a totally different way by their successors without the greatest possible public inconvenience. But in this instance, the position was even worse, because the change of policy had taken place during the existence of the present Ministry. A scheme was prepared by a Commission appointed by Lord Russell's Government for laying out the whole of this land, and concentrating all the public offices on the long line extending from the Admiralty down to George Street, and that plan was adopted, and the necessary notices given by the late Government. When Mr. Disraeli's Government went out of office a Bill Q was brought in, which was backed by the names of the present Chancellor of the Exchequer and Mr. Layard, for carrying out the major part of that plan, the execution of which would have obviated the complaints now made by the hon. Member for the Isle of Wight. That Bill, however, was entirely shelved, and now the Chief Commissioner declined to state what was to be done with the line of houses immediately in front of the new buildings. When the Chief Commissioner stated that what was being done was carried out under Acts of Parliament and Votes, agreed to by that House, he must remind the right hon. Gentleman that those Acts were passed and those Votes obtained by the Ministers of the Crown in accordance with certain maps and plans produced for the satisfaction of Parliament, and Parliament was induced to sanction the Bill of 1865 on the distinct understanding that Parliament Street was to be widened by the whole breadth of the land purchased under the various Acts, and not required for the buildings. It was to be regretted that when the whole of the block of houses in question might at one time have been purchased at what would at the present moment be considered a moderate price, this piecemeal policy should have been entered upon, and that a miserable set of houses should be left standing in what might otherwise be one of the finest approaches to the Houses of Parliament, and the Abbey at Westminster. VISCOUNT BURY remarked that the question was whether the right hon. Gentleman had any comprehensive plan at all, and, if so, when would it be laid on the Table of the House, for they were now within one year of the actual completion of the works. They ought, therefore, to take care how they parted with the control of public expenditure in the matter, and to know whether one of the greatest alterations made in recent years was to be an improvement or not. He was surprised to hear the right hon. Gentleman say either that he had no plan, or that he declined to produce one; and in order to persuade the right hon. Gentleman to give the Committee all the information possible, he should be prepared to move a very material reduction of the Vote. DR. BREWER said, it was for the House to determine what should be done Lord John Manners with the acquired land, and he asked. whether it would not be possible to throw the whole of it into Parliament Street? They could not hesitate to vote what was necessary for the widening of the street, as the object was of an Imperial rather than of a local character. MR. GOLDSMID said, that the question was whether the understanding that all the space not required for the public offices should be thrown into Parliament Street ought not to be carried out. The original plan should be carried out for the sake both of the public and of the Government offices themselves. MR. COWPER-TEMPLE said, he was rather alarmed at the suggestion thrown out by the Chief Commissioner of Works, that Crown property might not, like other property, be used for the public advantage. The extent of public thoroughfare that had been lost by stopping up part of King Street had to be replaced in Parliament Street; and although the whole of the street could not be widened by the present plan, the widening of half its length would be an important gain in beauty and convenience. He hoped to hear some satisfactory explanation of the right hon. Gentleman's remarks, for he was curious to know at what they could be pointed. The great thoroughfare between Trafalgar Square and the Houses of Parliament ought to be widened, whether from local or from Imperial funds. He hoped the Government would have no difficulty in stating their views upon the subject. MR. ALDERMAN LUSK thought the Committee had been a little hard on the Chief Commissioner of Works, for it was not so much his business to say what he was going to do as for the Committee to say what ought to be done. It would be imprudent in the Chief Commissioner to assume the functions of the House of Commons, and decide important points like this, and the Committee ought not to press the matter. MR. M. CHAMBERS said, the Committee had been asked to vote £100,000, and for what? This was an estimate of the amount required during the current year for the erection of new offices in Fludyer Street. The hon. Member for the Isle of Wight (Mr. B. Cochrane) had argued that Parliament had been extravagant and incautious with regard to purchases of property for the public offices, yet what were the facts? Forty years ago the Government purchased | the lands which Parliament had bought. Downing Street, which was for many The houses were still standing on those years in a dilapidated and uninhabited lands, and were occupied as offices. condition; when suddenly there was a When the lands were cleared, then would resolve that something should be done; be the time for whatever Government a magnificent scheme for building public was in office to decide what should be offices was drawn up, and afterwards the done with the site. For his own part, House of Commons was called upon to he felt no embarrassment and no responvote the money to carry out the plan. If, sibility in the matter; the time for dealhowever, sufficient property for any ing with it had not yet arrived. He had public improvement was not taken at not prejudiced or predetermined the first, when more was required it could matter in any way; he left it a perfectly only be obtained at a price beyond that open question. The local authorities which it would have fetched originally. seemed to consider that they had an No doubt this money would have to be equitable claim to have the breadth of voted; but the demand afforded a fair King Street added to Parliament Street. opportunity for commenting on the folly When the proper time arrived, whoever of a Department planning a grand then held the office entrusted to him, scheme, and then running away from it would deal with that question according on account of the great expense, which to every principle of justice which could had been the evil in this case. The Chief be quoted. The noble Lord opposite Commissioner ought to have been pre- (Lord John Manners) was quite wrong pared to tell the Committee what he was in supposing that he had departed from going to do with the land in question, any plans proposed by his predecessors; and his statement that the land was not the plan on which the new buildings to be thrown into the open street was not were proceeding had indeed been reconand ought not to be satisfactory to hon. sidered by the architect, but the ground Members, whose duty it was to see how plan was precisely the same as that the public money was expended. He settled by his predecessor in office. As did not wish to cause embarrassment to regarded metropolitan improvements, he his right hon. Friend; but the House would remind hon. Members that there ought to have the power of saying- was a far greater power than the Chief "You shall not have the money unless Commissioner of Works, and that was you tell us what is to become of the the Metropolitan Board. land." MR. AYRTON said, the discussion had travelled very wide of the real question before the Committee, which had reference simply to the voting of money for the new Home and Colonial Office, for the erection of which, on the faith of former Votes of the House, contracts had been entered into, the works had been commenced, and the money now asked for was for the purpose of paying the contractors. The complaints made as to the non-dedication of lands to the public should be addressed to his predecessors, who had not thought proper to insert the necessary clauses for securing their object in the Acts under which the site was acquired. Not long ago the parochial authorities called on him to ask whether he was not going to widen Parliament Street. He asked them to point out the sections in the Acts requiring that to be done; they, of course, were unable to point to any such directions, but they thought that perhaps he might do it. He, however, had no power to give away LORD ELCHO admitted that the question as to the land did not arise immediately out of the Vote for the new Home and Colonial Office, but thought it was closely connected with it. His right hon. Friend, in fact, admitted this, when he said that the future occupant of the office which he now held would have to decide the question whenever the land was cleared. This course was too characteristic of all our legislation, which proceeded in a happy-go-lucky, hap-hazard spirit, upon the assumption that sufficient for the day is the good or evil thereof. Had the scheme of that great ædile, Sir Benjamin Hall, been carried out at the time it was proposed, the land would have been acquired at a price which, in these days, would be considered moderate, whereas matters had been deferred from year to year, till at last no one exactly knew what was being done. With a view of rendering matters more intelligible, Mr. Layard, now our Minister at Madrid, caused a great model to be prepared for exhibition to Members in the conference -now the dining-room of the House of Commons; and if by this or similar means Parliament were enabled to judge of the schemes for public works in progress or in contemplation, the present difficulty would never have arisen. That difficulty arose from this-that a space of land was to be cleared, and the Chief Commissioner of Works told them that his successor would be able to judge how to deal with the land, and that the Government then existing would deal with it on principles of justice. But this was not what was now wanted. What was wanted was that some clear and intelligible system of action should be laid down-not that land should wait until it became vacant, and then be dealt with, in the words of his right hon. Friend, "according to every principle of justice." cause so much pressure was occasionally brought to bear upon the Government in relation to the Embankment and other improvements in the metropolis, which ought not to be paid for out of the general taxation. MR. BERESFORD HOPE said, he was satisfied that a very large sum of money now voted for the rent of public offices might have been saved if a proper systematic plan for rebuilding them had been adopted at first. The present complication would have been avoided if Parliament had been called upon for a certain sum of money to carry out a fixed mass of buildings capable of decently housing the public offices of the country-say, a new Home and Colonial Office, as well as a National Gallery and a Royal Academy. MR. RYLANDS said, a question had been raised-what was to be done with a certain amount of land which had been purchased by the nation when the houses which at present stood on it had been removed? But what was the object of discussing that question now? When the time came for the buildings to be cleared away, then it would be for Parliament to decide what was to be done with the vacant space. His right hon. Friend, if he should remain in office-as he hoped he would for many ther step in the matter without the express sanction of Parliament. The metropolis must be looked at as a sort of Imperial concern, and he thought the question should not now be pressed. MR. M'LAREN said, that all hon. Members who had spoken seemed to him to have missed the real question. The point whether this space should be thrown into a street had been discussed, and there seemed to be great unanimity of opinion that it ought to be, but the question who should pay for it had never been broached. He held that street improvements ought to be paid for by the Metropolitan Board of Works, and that the people of Ireland and Scotland ought not to be taxed for them. He would put an analogous case. The right hon. Gen-years to come-could not take any furtleman at the head of the Government had, when Chancellor of the Exchequer, agreed to have Industrial Museums in the three capitals of the kingdom London, Dublin, and Edinburgh. When the time arrived for carrying out the improvement the Government opposed the erection of the Museum in Edinburgh unless the people agreed to pay the expense of widening the street from 25 to 70 feet. He was one of a deputation who urged him not only to erect the building but to widen the approach to it; the right hon. Gentleman, however, declined to do so, and the result was that the City of Edinburgh had to widen the street from 25 to 70 feet, at an expense of £30,000 or £40,000. If that was the right principle applicable to the North, why was it not applicable to the Southto the City of Westminster as well as the City of Edinburgh? And why should not the Board of Works in the metropolis do what was done by the people of Edinburgh-make the road at their own expense? He said that the rather beLord Elcho LORD ELCHO still maintained the opinion he had expressed that it would have been better for the public if the whole plan of these buildings had been laid before Parliament and nothing left to hap-hazard. MR. CANDLISH said, he objected to hon. Members in Committee of Supply airing any mortal crotchet they wished. He wished to ask the Chief Commissioner of Works, whether the building for the Home and Colonial Office would be completed for the sum originally estimated-namely, £285,000? LORD ELCHO expressed his regret that the hon. Member for Sunderland should have thought it right to make remarks which amounted to a censure upon the conduct of the Chairman of Committees, |