taken up at all, should be dealt with as a general question.

Amendment negatived.

MR. PEASE proposed, in line 12, to leave out "eight," and insert, 'ten," so that the bank might not be under 10. age of children employed above

MR. BRUCE said, he believed, as a Se-matter of fact, that no children of the tender age which his hon. Friend had in view were ever employed.

scarcely have a spare hour to bestow upon it. The practical inconveniences of that system were so patent to them all, that he might, perhaps, be pardoned for alluding to one or two instances which had recently occurred. During the last fortnight the country had been passing through a great crisis in connection with the negotiations respecting the Washington Treaty. Atsuch a period it seemed to him that the Go

their service the assistance of their Law Officers; and those in the Government who had the highest legal knowledge should have had sufficient leisure to concentrate their whole thoughts upon the bearing of any new proposal or any new clause which might be inserted in the Treaty. But what was the fact? Why, that just at that very time when the Government required all the aid of their Legal Advisers, those Gentlemen were absorbed in their private practice. Again, as to another instance, he thought he was justified in saying that it was one which concerned the practice and procedure of that House itself. Certain distinguished Members of that House had laboured during the last three years to introduce that important measure of law reform earnestly demanded by the

of these acts. Further, they had to be the legal advisers not only of the Government, but also of that House. It very often happened that measures were introduced involving difficult questions of legal interpretation. On legal pointswith which men like himself felt themselves incompetent to deal-they wanted an authoritative decision; and to whom were they to look for it but to the legal advisers of that House? The Law Officers of the Crown had likewise to per-vernment required to have constantly at form the duties of public prosecutors; they had to determine for the Government, for instance, if a great commercial fraud had been committed, whether it was the duty of the Government to undertake a prosecution or not; and probably also the Government had to appeal to them for assistance when it had to decide whether or not it was wise to exercise the prerogative of pardon. Those were some-perhaps not all-of the public duties which the Law Officers of the Crown had to discharge; and he asserted that there was no head of a great Department, no Secretary of State, who had to perform duties which more taxed the capacity of the most able, or were more engrossing of the time, the thought, and the energy even of the most gifted man who ever occupied a public position in this country. Not only, how-country-the Public Prosecutors Bill. ever, had they to discharge those heavy duties, but they had to appear in Court as advocates, whenever the Government had any contentious business; and they also generally filled, as far as private practice was concerned, a leading position in a profession which was admitted to be one of the most onerous and ex-ing at the law reports, however, the next hausting in which a man could engage. What would the public think if the Home Secretary, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or the Secretary of State for War were at the head of some great commercial establishment, and if the only time they devoted to their public duties was the few occasional hours which they could squeeze out of their absorbing private concerns? He was not blaming the Attorney or the Solicitor General, but complaining of the system; and he was only astonished that those Gentlemen could give up the part of their time to the public which they did. For himself, even as a private Member only, he found that the work he had to do was sufficiently absorbing of his time; and if he had a private practice he should

And what had occurred? Why, it came on for discussion on Wednesday last. The discussion lasted four hours, and during the whole of that time neither the Attorney nor the Solicitor General thought it worth their while or were able to attend for a single moment. On look

morning, he found that the Attorney General had been engaged in a great private will case. Now, if the Law Officers of the Crown were occupied six hours during the day in Court, how many must they spend in the morning or evening in reading their briefs and studying the law of the case? If a Law Officer of the Crown was then engaged in a great and absorbing case, how wasit possible for him to attend to his public duties in that House, or to give that amount of time which at such a crisis the Government ought to command from their legal advisers? So long as that system continued it would be as impossible for the Law Officers to give sufficient time to the performance of their duties as it would, he must repeat, be for the Prime Minister,

the Home Secretary, or the Chancellor | gard to his legislative duties, his first of the Exchequer, if they were taking an would be to draft and prepare Bills. His active part in the management of some second would be to exercise a control great commercial concern in the City. over the law reports. His third would But that by no means exhausted the case. be to devote his time to a systematic and To carry out a great and systematic mea- continuous effort at law reform. His sure of law reform, it was necessary for executive duties would be-first, to act those who had charge of it to devote to as legal adviser of the Government and its preparation long and continuous la- of the House-the Parliamentary legal bour. It had been said that the great authority to whom the Government and obstacle to law reform was in that House Parliament should appeal. In the second that if the Attorney or Solicitor place, he would have to discharge the General introduced a measure of law duties of public prosecutor, or if local reform they did not obtain sufficient public prosecutors were appointed, to assistance from the House. But the watch over them. In the third place, the shortest experience in the House of Com- prerogative of pardon should be enmons showed that those Bills passed trusted to him, and not to the Home Semost quickly which was introduced by cretary, who might not be a lawyer. He hon. Members having the confidence of thought he was justified in saying that the House; and nothing inspired confi- a Minister of Justice would have duties dence so much as a belief that the mea- to discharge second in importance to sure introduced was the result of care- none, sufficient to gratify the honourable ful, anxious, and continuous labour. ambition of the most capable man, and His second point was, that the present he would have the satisfaction of feeling system was not only inefficient, but ex- that there was no one in the country who tremely costly. If he rightly understood rendered more effectual services to the the Treasury Minute, the present ar- public. It might be said that they would rangement was that the Attorney Ge- not get an eminent lawyer to take the neral should in future receive £7,000 position; but would it not be second in a-year, and the Solicitor General £6,000. importance or dignity to that of Lord And for what? For all the work they Chancellor? and there was never any did for the Government? No. They difficulty found in getting distinguished were to receive these sums-40 and 20 per men to fill that office. With reference cent more than was given to the Prime to qualifications, Mr. Fitzjames Stephen Minister for the discharge of his public had said that the man who was most duties-and for the sums thus paid there successful at the Bar would be the best was no security that these officers would man for a Minister of Justice; but it was devote a proper amount of time to the dis- not necessarily the fact that the best advocharge of their duties. In addition to cate, having the largest private practice, these sums, they were paid for every bit would fill the post with most advantage of contentious work done for the Govern- to the public. The necessary qualificament, in each case receiving a handsome tions might co-exist with great rhetorical fee, and made what they could out of powers, but that would be an exception. their private practice. He did not say Such an officer as the legal Member of that £7,000 and £6,000 were extrava- the Council of the Governor General of gant sums for the Law Officers; but they India was what was needed-a position were monstrously extravagant sums, un- which had been filled by the most emiless Parliament could have a much better nent jurists of our own country-Lord guarantee than at present that the duties Macaulay and Sir Henry Maine-neither would be properly discharged; and it was of whom had practised in the Courts. It impossible they could be so discharged had happened that under their jurisdicso long as the present system was per- tion more had been effected by continuous mitted to continue. And now, it might exertion towards codifying the laws of be asked, what was the remedy for this India in three years than we had been state of things? He would not shrink able to effect in thirty. The salary atfrom the responsibility of shadowing out tached to that office was £8,000 a-year a scheme of reform. What was required without pension, and in cases where the in the first place was a Minister of Jus- person holding the office had retired tice. And what were the duties he would from ill health, he had invariably rebe called upon to discharge? With re- turned to his practice in this country. Mr. Fawcett

A salary of £8,000, £10,000, £12,000, | to express their opinion upon it. If the or even £15,000 then would be ample Government approved the Motion it for the post in this country, with a claim would be extremely useful to have that to some easier position on retirement, or Motion upon the Records of the House. a position such as was held by an ex- If they disapproved it, of course the Lord Chancellor. But the position of a House would hear their reasons, and Minister of Justice in this House might also the reasons of those who would give be strengthened if there were a perma- it their support, and they would be able nent Commission sitting outside, which to judge between the two. He had should assist him and render him ser- arrived at the conclusion that nothing vices analogous to those rendered to the could be done by a private Member heads of Departments by their Perma- unless he steadily persevered. He had nent Secretaries. If that were done, hon. tried his very best, and he had been Members of the House might be able to defeated by a combination of unforturefer their Bills to that Commission to nate circumstances in never having had have their opinion, not upon the policy an opportunity before that evening of of those Bills, but upon their legal bear- getting the House to express an opinion ings; and in that way we might be saved on the subject. But, as he had escaped from one of the greatest opprobriums of shipwreck to-night, he would certainly Parliament namely, the passing of take advantage of his good fortune, and Acts which were at variance with other would not let the occasion slip. His hon. Acts, the consequence of which was that and gallant Friend (Colonel Barttelot) unfortunate litigants found themselves said the other night that we were having involved in additional doubts and diffi- a great deal too much legislation in this culties. If we had such a Minister of House. We should soon be worried out Justice, there would not be the smallest of our lives by meddlesome and misreason why the Government, when they chievous Government intervention, and wished to appear in Court upon conten- people would shortly begin to saytious matters, should not retain for the "We won't be Conservatives or Liberals; conduct of their cases the most able but we shall join a party that will leave counsel. The Government then would people alone." Whenever such a party not be represented by the Attorney or was formed he should be a member of Solicitor General, who might be the it. But, though he said that, there was ablest lawyers in the House or the ablest one field of legislative activity in which lawyers who had not sacrificed their all might unite their efforts. The claims to office by too much indepen- stanchest Conservative and the most addence. The Government would have vanced Liberal, the stoutest advocate of an unlimited choice. They would be re- Government intervention and the most presented by the ablest men at the Bar, devoted disciple of laissez faire, might and it was a simple truism to say that combine in carrying out a scheme of the ablest men at the Bar might not be law reform which would give to the free able to find a seat in this House. There energy of this country a better chance of would be another collateral advantage developing itself. They might wish to . connected with the scheme. Nothing see the transfer of land rendered cheaper seemed so anomalous or mischievous, or and more expeditious; they might desire produced such a bad impression on the to see justice rendered less costly and less public mind, as that the Attorney or So- complicated, and punishment brought licitor General had sometimes to com- home with greater certainty to the ofbine what appeared to be the two per- fender, in whatever rank of life he might fectly contradictory offices of advocate be. These, and a countless number of and public prosecutor. For instance, instances which he might enumerate, the Attorney or Solicitor General might would suffice to show what bountiful be retained in a case which, in its pro- blessings a great law reformer might gress, might assume an entirely different confer on this country. Believing that phase; and then they might be called if he had failed to do so, there were upon by the Government to decide whe- others to follow in the debate who would ther the State should or should not carry abundantly point out the evils of the on a prosecution. The House might ask present system, he would ask the House what he intended to do with his Motion. with some confidence to accept the MoHe would certainly ask hon. Members tion which he now begged to make.