In a despatch of the 22nd of July, 1870, Lord Granville, writing to Lord Lyons, said

"The two Governments (those of England and France) agreeing in the proposed reforms, it seems to Her Majesty's Government that the facts of this accord should be made known to the other Powers at Cairo, as well as to the Porte and the Pasha of who were represented in the Commission that sat Egypt. It remains for the Viceroy to obtain the consent of the Sultan to these proposed reforms,

and wished to entrust to it all its great | themselves. The Commission has only desired that works and to encourage capital to be the officer of justice charged with the execution brought into the country; that the Go- should be obliged to give notice to the Consuls of the day and hour of the execution under the vernment was rendered powerless and penalty of rendering the judgment void, and inhad to abandon the country to itself; curring damages," and that the system on which justice was administered tended to demoralize the country, while the Government was accused of weakness and error, as evidenced by the fact, that in Egypt Europeans had for 40 years enjoyed the rights of property and paid no taxes. All that was opposed to the letter and spirit of the Capitulations, and prevented the development of the resources of Egypt. In a despatch Lord Stanley entered fully into the subject, and stated that Her Majesty's Government were perfectly willing to lend their aid to the Egyptian Government in an attempt to establish a better system, and that if the Egyptian Government obtained the concurrence of other Powers, the cordial co-operation of Great Britain would not be withheld from so salutary a work. Lord Stanley added that

"Her Majesty's Government are certainly not inclined to hold out for a jurisdiction to which they have no treaty right, which they admit to be an usurpation, though brought about by force of circumstances, and which is as injurious to the British interests as it is derogatory to the character and well-being of the Egyptian Adminis

tration."

and it is for the Sultan to inform all the Powers

that these reforms are sanctioned by law.” He was anxious that every means at our disposal should be used to get these reforms at once recognized. At the Conference of the Great Powers on the occasion of the Treaty of Paris, 1856, on the 25th of March, Aali Pasha submitted to the Conference that all the commercial difficulties between Turkey and the other Powers arose from the Capitulations, which had outlived their time. He asserted that the privileges thus acquired by Europeans were injurious even to themselves, and to all commercial transactions; that the jurisdiction claimed by foreign Powers led to a multiplicity of Governments, Those views had also been fully and and consequently created an insuperable ably carried out by Lord Granville, and barrier to all improvement. M. de an International Commission had been Bourqueney and the other Plenipotenappointed, representing the different tiaries agreed that these Capitulations Powers, on the subject of these reforms. placed Turkey in a very false position, The Report of the Commission said that but it could not be denied now that it could not be denied that the establish- Egypt was placed in a very false position, ment of a single jurisdiction, presenting and Prince Tour d'Auvergne had exreal guarantees, and applying one uni-pressed the opinion that, in consequence form and known law, was precisely the of particular circumstances, the position. direct and necessary remedy for the in- of foreigners in Egypt was not the same conveniences resulting from the multiplias in other Provinces of the Turkish city of jurisdiction and system of laws. The Commission, therefore, did not hesitate to declare its opinion that disputes between foreigners and natives, as well as those between foreigners of different nationalities, should be submitted to a single tribunal, as proposed by the Egyptian Government. With regard to the execution of sentences, the International Commission was

Empire. The question was not a general one, but peculiar to Egypt. Lord this opinion, and Lord Clarendon, in a Granville and Lord Stanley joined in despatch, had alluded to the same point and insisted that Egypt was an exceptional district. The Sultan, however, had announced that he was drawing up a new code of law; but it might be 10 years before this code was arranged, while, in the meantime, a code had been already drawn up in Egypt and approved by all the different Powers, so that there was nothing to prevent the new Court, which was to consist half of

foreigners and half of natives, being | To put the matter, however, in a pracconstituted to-morrow. Its establish- tical way, he hoped that men's minds ment would give confidence to all the would really turn eastwards, and take Powers concerned, and the objections to notice of the important facts to which he the Consular Courts would no longer be called attention. He asked his noble a subject of complaint. If any justifica- Friend the Under Secretary of State for tion were needed of the Motion he pro- the Foreign Office, in his reply, to hold posed making, it was to be found in the out some hope that Government would commercial returns of the country. Few take advantage of the document which not conversant with the facts were aware he had submitted to them, and in which of the present state of the commerce of all the Powers had agreed upon what Egypt. The imports to Great Britain was wanted in Egypt. He sincerely from Egypt amounted to £16,116,000; trusted that the Government would give while from France the value was only way and grant these reforms, which £33,000,000; Turkey, £6,528,000; Ger- were essential to the interests both of many, £17,000,000, only equal to Egypt. this country and of Egypt itself. The The exports from this country to Egypt hon. Member concluded by asking the were £8,726,000; to France, £11,000,000; Government to lay on the Table all the to Turkey, £5,300,000. These, of course, Papers connected with the question. included goods in transit; but the increase during the past four years was enormous. Everyone who had visited the country spoke of the amazing improvement and increase in its manufactures. The sugar manufactures had increased enormously; factories were studded all over the face of the country, in each of which British subjects were employed, and it might be said, with perfect fairness, that the interest of Egypt was the interest of England. That was the principle upon which he asked the House to consider the case. He had alluded to the Suez Canal the other evening, as an instance of our position with respect to the Consular jurisdiction, and said that out of 107 ships passing through the Canal 69 were English, representing a tonnage of 77,000 out of 104,000. Curiously enough, he found, from a Return for the month of February last, that 100 ships passed through the Canal, of which 79 were English, 6 French, 5 Austrian, 2 Italian, 2 Egyptian, 1 Dutch, 1 Norwegian, 1 Ottoman, 1 Portuguese, 1 Tunisian, and 1 German. Yet the French Government claimed the right of trying in their Consular Courts all actions arising out of differences between the traders and the company. What justice could be expected under such circumstances? If this state of things were continued, English interests could never be protected. The classical mind of the First Lord of the Treasury knew how much we were indebted to Egypt for our civilization. Lord Houghton had written

"Eastward roll the orbs of Heaven-westward roll the thoughts of men."

MR. A. GUEST said, he agreed with the hon. Member for the Isle of Wight, that the interests of England were identical with those of Egypt. There was, however, one important point connected with the case to which his hon. Friend had not referred, and which related to the mortgage of land. Whenever an Egyptian sued an Englishman in a case of that description, it was always decided in the Consular Court, and the same rule held good when an Englishman sued an Egyptian. To show the importance of the application of capital to the land in the cultivation of cotton in Egypt he might state that land which when not irrigated produced only one quintal and a-half of cotton would, when irrigated, produce five quintals or more. It was natural enough, therefore, that the Egyptian peasant should wish to have his land watered; but irrigation in that country could not be carried out without capital. The Egyptian was most anxious to enlist foreign capital on his side; but when he was about to do so an order came out from the Egyptian Government that no security could be taken on the land itself-the fact being that, in cases where the mortgage was foreclosed, the property passed beyond the jurisdiction of the Government, who were, therefore, afraid that by such means the country would eventually fall into the hands of the French and English, and that they might establish colonies there. Within the last few years, however, since the American War, Egypt had become one of the great cotton-growing countries. The cotton grown in Egypt was of a very superior

character, and it was of the greatest im- | Government complained that abuses had portance that the British capitalist should arisen by which judicial power over fohave his transactions assured to him by reigners, especially in criminal cases, the Courts of that country. He could was wrested from the Egyptian Law mention the most extraordinary cases in Courts and placed in the hands of Conwhich British capitalists over and over suls, which often prevented natives from again tried to get the money they had obtaining justice from Europeans. Nulost, but were utterly unable to do so. bar Pasha proposed the scheme of judiThe judicial reforms in question had cial reform which, at the suggestion of been assented to by all the foreign Go- Colonel Staunton, was to be referred to vernments; and though hereafter there an International Commission. The year might be some difference about the 1868 was occupied in discussing the nerepresentation of the different countries cessary preliminaries-namely, when the on the Bench of the Mixed Courts, yet Commission should sit, whether inquiries the Code had been ratified in each should be made into the Capitulations country interested, and it was only the themselves, into usages arising from the Porte that caused any difficulty. Of Capitulations, and whether the proposed course, they knew the Porte was jealous civil tribunals should take cognizance of of the progress which Egypt had made criminal matters? In 1869 the Internaduring the last few years; but that was tional Commission met at Cairo. Its comnot a matter which they need take into position was as follows:-Nubar Pasha, consideration, because he felt sure that Minister of Foreign Affairs to the KheEgypt had no idea of separating from dive of Egypt; the Agents and Consuls the Porte. The matter intimately con- General of Austria, of Hungary, of the cerned the foreign commerce of this North German Confederation, of the country as well as the welfare of Egypt United States, two Commissioners for and its continued progress by means of France, two for England, two for the foreign capital. He, therefore, hoped Italian Government, and two for the the noble Lord would be able to give Russian Government. The labours and them an assurance that the Government Report of that Commission well deserved were prepared to put some pressure on the attention of the House. He might the Porte to carry out these long-pro- be allowed to make a very few extracts mised reforms. In conclusion, he begged from the Parliamentary Paper containleave to second the Motion of his hon. ing the Report which had been produced Friend. two years ago on the Motion of the noble Lord the Member for Liverpool (Viscount Sandon). The Commission had to take cognizance not only of reforms to be carried out in civil and commercial matters, but also for the repression of offences. They had to inquire into the complaints raised by the Egyptian Government, and the greater or lesser foundation for the same; the exposition and appreciation of the reforms demanded; the enumeration of the guarantees offered by the Government; the examination of the efficiency of these guarantees, and of the supplementary guarantees which it would be necessary to demand. He would submit the following extracts to their notice, taken from the Report, and bearing on the subject :—

VISCOUNT ENFIELD said, his hon. Friend the Member for the Isle of Wight (Mr. Baillie Cochrane) had made a very interesting speech on the subject, and illustrated it in his usual pleasant and graphic manner by his own personal adventures; in the result of which he (Viscount Enfield) might at least say that the hon. Gentleman had not "spoiled" the Egyptians. He could assure the hon. Gentleman that the despatch which he quoted, and which was addressed by Lord Stanley in 1867 to Colonel Staunton, had not been deviated from in any essential principle by the successive Secretaries of State who followed him. His hon. Friend had stated with perfect accuracy the state of the case. By virtue of the Capitulations granted by the Ottoman Government, most European Governments exercised the right of independent jurisdiction over their respective subjects in Egypt, excepting in cases where one of the parties to the suit was an Egyptian. In 1869 the Viceroy's Mr. A. Guest

"Besides the local tribunals, there are in Egypt 16 or 17 Consulates having right of jurisdiction over the subjects of the nations they represent. universal rule followed with regard to competence Consequently, in the actual state of things, the

in civil and commercial matters is that the de

fendant should necessarily be brought before his own tribunal-that is to say, the native before the

local tribunal, and the foreigner before the tri- | Commission one of the most important bunal of his Consulate. It is the absolute appli- guarantees offered by the Government. cation of the rule actor sequitur forum rei. The As to the proceedings in criminal cases, inconveniences pointed out weigh as heavily, and perhaps more heavily, on foreigners than on the the Commission thought the reforms natives; they have the effect of preventing fo- proposed by the Egyptian Government reigners from coming to Egypt, and on this ac- were equally satisfactory, and after going count the Egyptian Government is justified in say very carefully into the manner in which ing that they are exceedingly prejudicial to the the system should be carried out the country, by preventing the Government from applying to substantial contractors to whom it would Commissioners concluded by saying that wish to confide its great public works. But the they found the Government of the Vicemost disastrous consequences to the Egyptian roy was, in all respects, disposed to listen Government of the multiplicity of jurisdictions is, to their suggestions. His hon. Friend that it cannot possibly enforce the laws concern. ing patents, industrial property, and trade marks, and the House were no doubt anxious because each Consulate would, in these matters, to know why the recommendations he apply its own laws, and that the industry and had just referred to produced no pracwealth of the country would suffer from such im- tical results. After the termination of possibility. The Commission cannot deny that the the labours of the Commission, it was establishment of a single jurisdiction, presenting real guarantees, and applying one uniform and finally agreed that the French Governknown law, is precisely the direct and necessary ment should frame a Code for carrying remedy for the inconveniences resulting from the into effect the proposed judicial reforms. multiplicity of jurisdictions and systems of laws. This work was completed on the 15th of It does not hesitate to declare its opinion, there- May, 1870, and the Code having been fore, that the views of the Egyptian Government on this point should be adopted-that is to say, carefully considered and agreed to by that disputes between foreigners and natives, as Her Majesty's Government, it only rewell as those between foreigners of different na-mained to obtain the assent of the Porte. tionalities, should be submitted to a single tri

bunal."

The French War, however, supervening, matters remained dormant until January, 1871. It was then proposed by the Khedive that a Commission should be appointed to inquire into the provisions of the Code; but the English Government said they could not take the initiative, and suggested a reference to Constantinople. In March, 1871, the Khedive said he would form his own tribunals, merely modifying existing laws conformably to the wants of his own country. The English Government said they generally approved that plan, and promised their good will. Sir Henry Elliot accordingly informed the Sultan of the

With regard to the execution of sentences, the Commission was unanimously of opinion that it should take place without the possibility of any administrative, Consular, or local power placing any obstacle in its way, either directly or indirectly, and that such execution should be assigned to the new tribunals themselves. In reference to the composition of the tribunals the Commission recommended that the tribunals should be composed in such a manner that in matters where foreigners were parties to the cause the majority should be secured to foreign magistrates, and it further re-plan, who offered no objection, but said commended the addition to the Tribunals that the position of foreigners must in of First Instance, judging in commercial no instance be thereby affected. The matters, of two merchants, one native, Khedive, through Colonel Staunton, said the other foreign, chosen by means of that would not be the case, adding that election. It was recommended besides he hoped to make the general reforms that hearings should be public and the more acceptable to the Porte and the defence entirely free. The Commission European Powers. In October, 1871, admitted that the guarantees offered by Sir Henry Elliot reported that the the Government had, collectively, a real Khedive had written to Aali Pasha; but value, and testified to a sincere desire to the death of that distinguished statessecure a good administration of justice; man shortly afterwards put a stop to but the Commission was of opinion that further communications. Colonel Staunthey required to be completed, and it ton then announced that the Porte did was right to state that not one of those not object to the general principles of demanded by the majority of the Com-judicial reform as laid down by the mission had been refused by the Government. The majority assured to the European Judges was considered by the

International Commission, but objected to the Code of the Khedive as trenching upon the Sovereign rights of the Porte,

On the part of the Khedive, Colonel culty. Had the suggestions of the Staunton replied that he would frame Commissioners been carried out nolaws according to those of the Empire, thing would have been more effectual with modifications to suit the circum- in every respect; but, unfortunately, stances of his country. The Khedive the old root of the bitterness had also stated that these modifications would shown itself again. The Porte now be within the competence of his own said that they could not accept the Code Government, and authorized by Royal which had been drawn up by the French, firmans. In May, 1872, Server Pasha, and that they would draw up a code of in reply to Sir Henry Elliot, said the their own, which was to be ready in six Porte was preparing a new Code, to be months. He would be very glad if it completed within six months, expressed was, but he feared the anticipation a hope that this would prove applicable would not be realized; and although he to the whole Empire, and meanwhile would admit that in most respects the suggested some delay in considering the recommendations of the Commission scheme of the Khedive. He said also were decidedly satisfactory, yet he must that while disposed to see that these object to the proposal made by the Comreforms were carried out, he hoped there mission that the procedure before the would be no interference on the part of tribunal was to be carried on in the lanthe British Government. The House, guage of the country, or in French or he trusted, would therefore think that Italian. He should like to know why from the year 1867 to the present time no English should not be used, where the foreign Minister had shown himself insen- interests of British or American citizens sible to the importance of judicial reforms were involved? The language of in the East. But in dealing with the Porte, 80,000,000 of people should not be put they were dealing with an independent aside in that way. He also objected to and friendly Power; and though he felt the procedure in cases affecting religious certain that Her Majesty's Government property being carried on in an Egyptian would continue to give such attention to Court presided over by Egyptians. In this subject as its importance demanded, that case foreigners would have no and would not lose any opportunity of chance whatever. In all other respects pressing this matter on the attention of he thought the recommendations of the the Porte, their interference must be Commission and the institution of the triconfined within such limits and be ex-bunal had been most excellent. He hoped ercised with such discretion as the Porte had a fair right to expect from this country. He did not know that he had any Papers to present to the House on the subject; but he trusted that within the time specified we should see a fair and impartial system of judicial reforms carried out in its integrity.

MR. EASTWICK said, there was nothing more clear, from the Koran downwards, than the extreme and almost vindictive one-sidedness with which Christians, and all other people of other religions, were viewed by the Mohammedan law. The manner in which Mohammedans viewed the professors of other creeds might be summed up in the famous lines

"A Christian's well may not be clean tis true, "Twill do to wash the carcase of a Jew."

This rancour was undoubtedly the real source of the difficulty they were discussing. The suggestion made by the Commissioners of an International tribunal was, no doubt, the only thing by which we could emerge from that diffiViscount Enfield

the Foreign Office authorities would give their earnest attention to this matter, and though they might be very much embarrassed by the necessity of keeping up the independence of the Porte and its paramount jurisdiction, still he hoped they would not allow that to interfere with this most necessary re-organization of the law in the East.

Motion, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair," put, and agreed to.

SUPPLY CIVIL SERVICE ESTIMATES.
SUPPLY-considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)
(1.) £29,500, Natural History Mu-

seum.

MR. WHALLEY rose to Order, and asked whether he was to understand that Mr. Speaker had left the Chair? He was at a loss to know how it had happened that the right hon. Gentleman omitted to call his name, as he had a