MR. JONES: The Brown System of Discipline seems to be very satisfactory as we are now applying it. It is standard in all parts of the country where used (and it has been introduced on all the principal railroads in the United States), more SO than the standard operating rules, because of the fact that human nature is the same the world over, whereas local physical conditions often make it advisable and necessary to vary from the standard operating rules.

I would suggest but one amendment, namely, that, when a person enters the service of the company, his name be immediately entered in the discipline record book, and that he be given the benefit of any continued clear record he is able to maintain from the moment of entering the service, instead of waiting until he becomes an object for discipline, and then opening up an account with him in the discipline record book. If he has been in the service for a period of, say, two years with an absolutely clear record, it would seem that, in justice to him, he should be given credit for that length of good service. In other words, start his record with the time he enters the service, and give him all the credit that is due him for good and faithful service. I believe this would stimulate every employe to do everything possible to keep his record clear from the start, with the knowledge that credit was being given him on the discipline record book, and that his good work was not unnoticed by the division officials.

As to the advisability of derating an employe a percentage of the marks given in the record of suspension against his seniority, I would strongly protest against this:

1. For the reason that a man working under the seniority system is entitled to every day he serves. If he is incompetent it is only a matter of a short time when the proper application of the Brown Discipline by Record will result in his permanent dismissal.

2. Because such method of calculating seniority is very apt to result in errors of days, weeks, and even months, in point of seniority of the employe, with consequent annoyance of complaint from him and a first-class opportunity for the

ary work, inasmuch as they all seem so eager to meet division and general officers on the slightest provocation, and with complaints, a great many of which are imaginary. There would also be a continual see-saw in the seniority list, derating one man, necessarily advancing another; and as these seniority lists are issued but semi-annually, it would require a considerable amount of attention to keep up with the seniority of employes, particularly when there is but a matter of a few days or weeks in the respective seniority rights of men, as is the case in a great many instances; and when the inevitable annual reduction of forces takes place, there would at times be an endless confusion in determining seniority; particularly does this apply to the train and engine service, where the annual reduction affects so many men.

3. If a system of derating for suspensions was adopted, it would only be fair that the rule work both ways (if it is a good one), and the employe advanced the same ratio of percentage in his seniority for meritorious service which gains recognition to the extent of commendations or credit marks. Such would be expected by the employe, and it strikes me he would have good and sufficient reason for indulging in such expectation. Here, then, would be another first-class opportunity for disputes and misunderstandings to arise as to the legitimate seniority of the employe under the system of derating or advancing his seniority, a source of constant friction.

Theoretically speaking, there would be no occasion whatever for the above-mentioned confusion to occur; but practice teaches us that, where the individual records of from 200 to 700 or more employes are being kept, errors are sure to creep in.

The local as well as the general officers have enough worry to drive an average man to an early grave, without unnecessarily piling more on their shoulders.

MR. SHEASBY: The foregoing is all that I have received from the other members of the committee, I will submit the following as a summary of what has been said, also giving my views on the subject:

Mr. President and Gentlemen of the Club-Replying to question No. 7, reading: "Can any improvement be made in the Brown System of Discipline? Would it not be advisable to derate the employe a percentage of marks given in the record of suspension against his seniority?"

your committee have the honor to submit the following:

I hope the propounder of the question sympathizes with the victim selected for the task of making reply in some measure commensurate with the scope and dignity and vital nature of the issue which full discussion must naturally open up.

That existing methods of discipline are not satisfactory is amply attested by the universal agitation of the subject and the many unexpressed opinions entertained by practical officials all over the country.

The fundamental principle of discipline will, if correctly interpreted and applied, protect the service from the mischief of the falsely-educated and careless man, it will protect the man against the mischief of erroneous theories of management, and it will protect the property interests against both, thus guaranteeing freedom from the mischief of the individual performing his duty in the wrong way or neglecting it entirely.

The purpose of right discipline is the same as forms the groundwork of right government; in fact, it is government, and its function is to secure from the individual that necessary consideration for the general good that is required of him by the laws of his country, and to so fashion the penalty that it shall fit the offense.

The definition of discipline as it must be applied to the operation of railways is, Fitness in the man, a comprehensive system of instruction for his guidance, coupled with substantial credit for good performance and certain punishment for failure; and, before entering into the consideration of any plan or feature of discipline, we must get rid of the notion that discipline means some form of punishment unscientifically applied, and so ingeniously manipulated as to shield the disciplining power from its very important responsibility for the character of results.

Any

Evolution in methods of discipline has been slow and clumsy. We deceive ourselves when we hope to successfully discipline the average man on the assumption that the actuating principle of his life is continued in the golden rule. plan of discipline having its punishing prerogatives destroyed is like a law minus its penalty power-it is law in name only. He who undertakes to formulate a system of discipline is confronted by the same problem as is the maker of common law, since he has to do with that perverse side of human nature which yields only as its own interests are jeopardized, and no farther. The fact that the employe who

has been properly selected and trained needs no disciplining, and the ideal citizen no law, except to protect him against those who do, is not sufficient grounds for the assumption that a plan of discipline minus its power to hurt is fully justified because of the injury done through indiscreet administration. We must always stay close to the fact that greater good will always result from a wise and judicious administration of a very bad plan than can possibly spring from a weak and vacillating application of a very good one.

This question of discipline, which constitutes the test of any plan of government, will always be either dignified or discredited by and through the human agency responsible for its application. Your committee ask that a pin be stuck here.

We must not overlook the fact that the degree of elasticity necessary in an ideal system of discipline can only be measured by the many different dispositions and natures comprising the million of railway operatives, and the principal weakness in the so-called Brown System is that it undertakes to prescribe for the many different sources of offense, a remedy which can be successful in but a few, since that which appeals to one man's sensibilities in a way calculated to inspire greater caution has not the slightest effect on a dozen others, to the end that it shields the man from the just consequences of his act and leaves unprotected the two other sides of the triangle.

Discipline, like common law, assumes two things: the threat of certain hurt to the vulnerable interests of the offender, and the healthy effect of example. If the power to hurt were removed from the law, and dependence placed on the simple publication of the fact that Smith or Jones had transgressed, we should see a return of the conditions which gave birth to the vigilantes.

It is not the law, but the faith in its application, that speaks for its success; just so with discipline. The thing which called to life the Brown System was the stench which emanated from favoritism, which overlooked an offense from one man and dismissed another for a like error; also the hurt to the domestic interests of the suspended employe; and while this last appeals with stern force to our sympathies, the fact remains that the lawmaker and the judge do not assume that men may safely use the misfortunes of the few co-sufferers to shield themselves from the just punishment of

their acts deliberately committed, which may lead to grave hurt to the many. Neither do they assume the discounting of their efforts for the general good because some fool judge or prejudiced jury may permit them to miscarry.

cases

The

The very commendable inspiration of our friend Brown to head off favoritism is sadly discounted, wherein certain men have received 200 to 250 "Brownies," without dismissal, and in some without any personal notification. responsibility for administering discipline is grave in the extreme, as often the ultimate effects of discipline, mistakenly applied, sour and embitter the disciplined. Here is where great tact and discernment, coupled with a thorough knowledge of human nature, are indispensable. We have seen men severely disciplined for a happening which they had made personal sac-. rifices to avert. The proper methods of investigation had been neglected. This kind of work makes socialists and anarchists on a small scale, and can not be charged to the system or plan, but is wholly a question of application; yet under the Brown plan a very large number of men would let it go unchallenged, simply because "it did not hurt," and they argue that the disciplining authority capable of the blunder is also blind to their special efforts in the company's interests, and thus, through one hasty conclusion in a question of responsibility for accident, the service loses that great value in special performance, which will always lie between the line necessary to avoid accident and that other and indefinable line which constitutes the border-line of human possibility, which must always remain beyond the province of rules to impose.

Nothing so effectually destroys the prestige of the disciplining power as to apply it on imperfect investigation.

You have noted the expressed belief of one of our colleagues that the Brown System as we are now applying it is very satisfactory. I confess to being somewhat confused as to the particular circles wherein the satisfaction he quotes may be found. If the relief it brings the disciplining power from the disagree able duties of a more rigid plan is satisfactory, then it may be satisfactory; yet this is not the purpose or function of discipline; and it is a fact beyond dispute that, during the life thus far of the Brown System, the records of individual performance and aggregate results have retrograded, until officials are tax

ing their wits for a remedy; yet our charity permits us to attribute a just share of the disturbing record to the manner of application, and not all of it to the foundation of the system itself.

We are reluctant to harbor the suggestion that sometimes comes to our mind that the Brown System is but part of the modern plan to proceed along the lines of least resistance, and to manufacture some sort of a theory of government which will be least liable to annoy with constant demands for a reconsideration of afflicted penalties, since there is not sufficient sting in record discipline to spur the average man to take issue with his superior, with whom, on general principles, he prefers to stay on good terms. It is possible to point to sufficient instances of this nature to horrify the advocates of the Brown System.

The first essential foundation for any system of discipline is the all-important question of selection of material for recruits for the service. We may just as well hope to sweep back the tides as to attempt anything like an ideal service through discipline if this one vital item is left to chance. It is too much like trying to melt the polar iceberg with moonbeams. Every recruit should be, so far as may be practicable and consistent with the exigencies of the service, selected on the theory that at some time he will be called upon to assume responsibilities in his particular department.

Next in importance is the great necessity for systematic methods of instruction and coaching on the code of rules and methods of procedure for operating the different departments, and more especially transportation departments. It is assumed that every man in service shall understand each item in the code exactly alike, yet it is startling to contemplate the great diversity of views entertained on one single item alone of existing rules, and it is not, as might be supposed, confined to the men of limited experience; it is found among the old veterans in the service, and is accountable on the peculiar truth that, out of twenty men given a selected newspaper article to read, scarcely ten per cent. will read it exactly alike, and those who do will be found to be such men as have the habit, either inherited or attained, of exactness in details, and, as is well known to those handling men, this class is sadly in the minority. A single letter in a word, a small word of two letters, a comma, or a period overlooked, and such

terms in the rules as "before," and "after," and "between," and "at," and "to" will all be found to assume different meanings in the different minds; and yet each stamp of the type in the printed code has its special and often vital bearing on the required interpretation. Since the issuance of new rules, many of the older men have relied on their experience and knowledge of their calling to carry them through all right; and here is the danger line; yet they are among the most loyal and competent of the army of employes in the service.

On the above showing, your committee believes it necessary that a board of instructors should precede a board of examiners, to the end that each man shall understand each item, however small in appearance, in the code, exactly as it is meant that he shall understand it. And let it be understood that, after a reasonable time for study and correct understanding, men will be required to pass, and will be removed until they can.

Your committee do not wish to digress or inject new matter into the question of discipline, yet the above is submitted because of our conviction that discipline means fitness for the discharge of obligations great or small, and where ignorance or misunderstanding is permitted as a handicap, the best system of discipline possible to formulate will prove unable to keep the service up to its necessary standards.

Discipline is forming altogether too great an item in the time and attention of officials, and we offer the suggestion of preparation and instruction, to the end that discipline shall be reduced to the minimum.

This brings us to a consideration of that part of the question relating to reduction in seniority rank as a penalty.

While we recognize and have argued the necessity for a penalty feature, we are convinced, after careful analysis of the many sides to seniority, that the thing is loaded, and prudence suggests that it be approached with caution and deliberation. Don't use cannon to kill snipe.

The law prescribes certain time limitations for all punishments, with the complete restoration of every right and privilege at the expiration of the punishment period. Seniority benefits are constant and cumulative in their nature; if you take from a man a certain number of days from his seniority, you place him junior to not only a certain number of men, but you also place him

junior to his hitherto understood privileges, and which will remain in that condition for his natural life. In other words, you are extending automatically beyond the expiration of his punishment period all the hurt and humiliation of the first day, and you thus overstep the legitimate prerogatives of the governing power.

There is, however, unquestionable logic and justice in a system of penalty which will reduce for a certain period the rank and pay of an offender. This plan, while arranging for the necessary penalties in the nature of a hurt to the vulnerable interests of the offender, accomplishes much the same degree of punishment as would result from seniority reduction; it also confines the entire punishment within the limits of the period prescribed, which, of course, will be adjusted in accordance with the enormity of the offense.

We desire, in conclusion, to endorse most heartily the suggestion from our Tucson colleague, that, when a man enters the service, his deportment account should be opened at once, and be taken into account when adjusting future penalties, so that full and adequate punishment shall always follow the offense.

We do not endorse the method of hanging a man on the installment plan, as is arranged for in the Brown System, and we know of no plan of discipline which will ever relieve the disciplining power of the unpalatable task of inflicting punishments; it is a duty which calls for the exercise of all the tact and discernment and firmness of a military commander, tempered with the humanitarian instincts of the broad-gauge civilian.

Many excellent families have fallen from the high standards of moral attainments which marked the careers of their ancestors, all because of a lack of a necessary guarding of developing ideas and patterns of life, together with a reluctance to inflict punishments for infringements. The great trust has not been kept by parents and guardians, to the end that new and dwarfed standards have come into American life, and the railway official whose duty it is to discipline makes a mistake when he appeals to instincts that have never been born, and, since he can not go back over the ages and re-educate, he must protect his trust through the infliction of penalties whose action on the selfish interests of the offender, which seem to be his only vulnerable spot, shall be healthy and lasting.

In full justice to the subject, we can not conclude without referring to the most serious of all the many disturbing elements in the problem, which make the task of the disciplining officials doubly vexing; that is, the spirit of organized labor, which seems to be flushed with the victories of recent years, and seems to be forgetting its own sacred obligations to its charge. They seem disposed to take a most unfair advantage of the existing state of the labor market, and, instead of making an honest effort to minimize the occasion for discipline, they are through and by this spirit of independence making the task more difficult, and we most seriously recommend that all labor leaders reflect on this neglected duty.

THE CHAIRMAN: Is there any one else who would like to address the Club on this subject?

MR. E. M. CUTTING: I did not fully understand that Mr. Sheasby was going to write on this subject; but as my views rather coincide with his, I will read what I have prepared on the subject:

Noticing question 7, reading: "Can any improvement be made in the Brown System of Discipline? Would it not be advisable to derate the employe a percentage of the marks given in the record of suspension against his seniority?"

Although this question has not been assigned to me for an answer, I will take the liberty of expressing my individual opinion, briefly, of the Brown System of Discipline as a whole, and of this phase of it in particular.

As I understand the system, it was gotten up to provide a method of discipline which would be effective in keeping employes up to a certain standard of efficiency, and at the same time would work no pecuniary loss on themselves, with consequent suffering and privation of their families.

In my opinion, the whole idea of punishment for evil deeds and careless actions of employes is entirely wrong in principle, and if it were possible to so raise the standard of services performed that punishment should be made unnecessary, it would certainly be desirable.

However, as it seems that this muchdesired condition of affairs can not be brought about to any great extent, it is certainly well to choose the lesser of two evils, and, consequently, the Brown System, which to a certain extent appeals to the honor and loyalty of the men affected by it.

As to whether it would be advisable

to derate the employe a percentage of the marks given in the record of suspension against his seniority, it seems to me that, if the question of seniority must be considered at all, and I presume it must, in the operating department at least, it would certainly be no more than just to have those men who have, through their own fault, received suspension on the record take less desirable positions, and allow those men whose service has been entirely satisfactory to hold the better positions.

There is still another phase of this question which couples in very naturally, and that is, if it is the rule that six months or a year of satisfactory service will wipe out a record of suspension after a man has made some error, why would it not be an equally good and just rule to consider long, faithful, and satisfactory service by an employe previous to his committing some infraction of the rules as of equal value in preventing a suspension. Of course, I understand perfectly that this matter is given more or less consideration by those whose duty it is to prepare the record bulletin, but this is largely a matter of the individual's personal opinion, and is not covered by any rule of actual length of time of satisfactory service.

To illustrate my idea, we will assume that John Brown has done something he ought not to have done, and is suspended on the record for ten days, which will require good conduct on his part to wipe the suspension off the record at the end of six months; and we will further assume that John manages to keep into clear for another year after the six months, and then his wife gets sick, and the baby is teething, and John gets a toothache, and, owing to the aforementioned sickness, John does not have the necessary ten plunks to go to the dentist and have the old thing bored out and a crown put on, and so he has to stand the toothache, and as all these things are rather conducive to a not altogether clear brain, John, in a moment of forgetfulness, makes a bull that he can not very well back out of, and according to the rules he will have to be suspended twenty days. Now what I should like to ask is this, Would it not be just and right to inquire into John's case, and find out if the conditions were as John stated, and, if they were, allow a year of previous good service to offset this one little slip of John's?

If John is a good man, and tries to