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so in like manner were the names of the committee; I prepared all the lists,
136. Those resolutions were put from the chair?-They were.
137. There is this resolution, "That the system of signs, pass-words and
138. This is a report signed by you as deputy grand secretary?—Yes.
140. Lord Kenyon moved the thanks of the grand lodge meeting to the Duke of Cumberland?-He did.
141. Did the Duke of Cumberland return thanks?-I cannot say; he generally did.
142. Thanks were also voted to the Duke of Gordon ?-Yes.
143. Was there a committee on that day?--It appeared to me, from looking at the document, that there had been a committee; the committee usually assembled the day preceding the grand lodge. The memorandum attached to the report refers to the accounts for a back period, respecting which there was a misconception in the minds of some that they had not been audited; this goes back from 1828 to 1825; it is a memorandum, not a part of the proceedings.
144. It is stated here that the accounts were published in the London circular of November then last past?—Yes.
145. That is to say of November 1830?—Yes.
146. Have you got that printed circular?—I think I have; I may have it amongst my papers.
147. It is stated here that the committee were to meet at the chambers of the institution, No. 5, Lyon's-inn, on the 1st of June then next, to audit the accounts; did they meet?-I cannot call to my recollection; that will be set forth in the report following that period; here is the report, purporting to be the proceeding; any thing that follows that is merely a memorandum of the secretary to give some information. There was some dissatisfaction existed in the country parts respecting the expenditure. To clear up that, in the printed statement to which I refer, November 1830, I gave abstracts of the accounts from 1825 to 1828. The people in the country imagined that all this expenditure had taken place without a subsequent audit by the committee; and to remove this misconception, I stated that those accounts had been examined at the proper periods.
148. All that is in that document above your name is the correct proceedings of the lodge, but the remarks underneath are your own?-The remarks underneath are my own, but a considerable part of that above was taken on my representation; for instance, the names of the deputy grand masters; it was taken for granted that the list was correctly taken from documents.
149. The last line of this document states that correct lists of the lodges, price 2s., may be obtained on application to the deputy grand secretary; have you got a correct list of the lodges?-I do not think I have; those did not belong to the institution, but to myself; but a large number of those lists were taken by Condell, amongst other things, and I believe he sold them as he thought proper; so I have heard.
150. They were sold to any member of the society who chose to give 2s. for them?--Yes, to any, whether members of the society or not.
151. The words "Printed Circular" or "Reports" are on some of those papers?—That is similar to that which I have produced, and call a report.
152. The very word "circular" intimates the extent of its circulation ?--I sent one to every warrant or master of a warrant to be read to the members.
153. This document was sent by you to every warrant in Great Britain? I believe so; I might have omitted some by mistake.
154. How many warrants were there in Great Britain at that time?—I should suppose 300 warrants.
155. At least 300 copies of those were sent by you in your official capacity? -I believe so.
156. You sent copies also to the most distinguished members of the Orange
C. E. Chetwoode,
13 August 1835.
Institution?-Yes, sometimes, not always; I did not always send to the more distinguished individuals, because I thought they would never take the trouble of reading them; it was more for the satisfaction of the lower orders than the 13 August 1835. higher they were issued.
157. Any Orangeman who thought proper could get a copy of this?—Any
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158. When was the word Lodge disused?-On the revision of the rules in 1822.
159. Can you show the Committee a warrant ?--This is what I call a warrant; this is the old form.-[Producing it.]
160. The blank warrant produced is signed by Lord Chandos and by the Duke of Cumberland?-Yes.
161. Those were the only names necessary to give validity to the warrant?— Yes; I sometimes signed my name, but when my principal signed it, I did not think it necessary to affix my name also.
162. A document to this effect signed by the Duke of Cumberland and the Marquis of Chandos would be sufficient?-By any dignitaries present; Lord Kenyon's signature would be equally sufficient.
163. You considered all which was sufficient to form any lodge ?—Yes; but we abolished lodges as distinct and separate bodies; that commission gave a general authority to an individual to form a meeting with five Orangemen when or wherever he may happen to be.
164. Where did you get this paper?-That I got printed from the copperplate which I obtained from Manchester.
165. How old is this?-The plate is old; it may be a few years; it was engraved at Manchester.
166. It was engraved before you became secretary?—Yes; I could not always find it convenient to see His Royal Highness, to lay documents before him; I could not go with every separate document as it was wanted, and I got that among others signed in blank, to be issued by me as occasion required.
167. How does it come to pass that you are able to produce this blank warrant, and that you are not able to produce other documents connected with the institution?—I found it remaining by accident amongst my private papers.
168. Are those the only papers you are able to discover?-Those I have produced are the only papers I have been able to discover at present.
169. This document, marked No. 103, purports to be a renewal ?—Yes, it is the same as the others, but printed on parchment.
170. This is a renewal executed the 22d of January 1834?—Yes, so it appears.
171. It is signed by Colonel Fairman, your successor ?—Yes.
172. This in fact is a renewal, not an original warrant?-I conceive it to be an original, and renewed by another document on the 22d of January 1834. 173. Will you look at this document, bearing date the 15th of February 1827; that is signed by you?—It is.
174. That is a circular?-It is.
[The same was delivered in, and read. Vide App. No. 2.]
175. This is a circular of the 15th June 1829, is it not?-[The same being shown to the Witness.]—It is.
[The same was delivered in, and read. Vide App. No. 2.]
176. Have the goodness to specify the several books, journals, ledgers and records which you kept in your capacity of deputy grand secretary?—I will, as far as my recollection will serve me; I kept a minute-book, which is that now shown to me; two enrolment books, one of which is here; a general alphabet I think it is called; a general register of members' names; a ledger of accounts, which is here; a debit and credit account of the several lodges.
177. Were there any others?-I think there were other books.
178. Was there a book containing a register of the number of lodges in connexion with the grand lodge?-There were small printed lists, which were my own; that list was made from the returns of the different warrants; a sort of compilation.
179. Where is that original compilation? It was made up in slips, and sent to the printer. 180. Was
180. Was there any manuscript book of the number of lodges?—No, I C. E. Chetwoode, think not.
181. Have you a book of warrants?-No, there was a small book in which did enter the warrants numerically, but I do not see that book; up to a certain 13 August 1835. period, they were entered numerically.
182. Was that one of the books taken away from your chambers ?—I think it was.
183. Are the four books now shown to you part of those taken away from your chambers ?—Yes.
184. What other books were there which are not here?—I cannot enumerate them particularly; I think there was one small ledger, where I had some of the warrants entered numerically.
185. Can you state how many masters' warrants there were at that time?— I can state in round numbers that there were about or nearly 300 in Great Britain and the Colonies.
186. Did you keep any rough book of the proceedings of the grand lodge and the committee?-This is the only book I kept, which is merely a transcript of the printed papers.
187. Does this book contain the original out of which the circulars were printed? No, the minutes of proceedings were generally put on slips; I had the resolutions placed on slips, and when sanctioned they were generally signed by the chairman; from that I made up those printed documents.
188. The resolutions were put in in slips, and they were signed by the chairman, after being passed, as your authority?—Yes; they were generally initiated by the chairman.
189. Did you keep those slips?-No; of those slips I made up my circulars, and as I was not allowed for a clerk, I took the shortest way I could, and generally gave those slips, pinning them together, to make the printed docu
190. Who was your printer?-The first I employed was a man of the name of Brown, in Broad-court, Drury-lane.
191. Did he print every document you had printed ?—Yes, up to a certain period.
192. Can you state the period?—I cannot; it was for some years.
193. Was he the first printer employed?-I think he was the first printer I employed.
194. Who was the second?-I think Graves, in Sherbourn-lane.
195. Who succeeded him?-Then I believe I got a few, but very few, printed by Wilson, of Lisson-grove; he is not a printer, but I employed him.
196. After him?—I do not think I employed any printer after him.
197. This book of the proceedings not only contains an account of what was done, but in a great measure an account of what was said; the speeches of different members ?-I never took them down. Colonel Fairman may have done so.
198. Does that book before you contain, during the time you were deputy grand secretary, all the minutes of proceedings ?-I think it does.
199. Your part of this volume terminates in page 222?—Yes; that is not my writing, but written by one of the clerks.
200. Although not your writing, have you any doubt that it was kept by the clerks under your directions?-I have no doubt.
201. And that the entries are correct?-I have not examined them, but I have no doubt of their correctness.
202. You did all you could to keep them correct?-As far as I could I did, and perhaps with some injury to my own affairs. The office was not paid for, so as to enable me to have much or any assistance.
203. Who was treasurer at the time you were secretary?—The grand treasurer was Colonel Fletcher, of Bolton, near Manchester.
204. Who succeeded to him in London ?-There was a deputy in London generally part of the time I kept the books; at another time Mr. Harman was the deputy treasurer.
205. Was any part of this book, as treasurer, kept by you?-[A book being shown to the Witness.]-No; no part of this book.
206. Were those accounts kept by you?—[Another book being shown to the Witness.-This book was kept by me in part.
207. Are the Committee to understand that in this book, marked "the Grand Orange Lodge Secretary," the accounts were kept by you from page 1 to page 128?—Not all of them. The accounts were opened by me, but subsequent 13 August 1835. entries appear by others.
208. There is a deputy grand master at Wigan; in page 31, there appears a debtor and creditor account, No. 11, 21, 109, 113, 116, 124; what do these refer to?—The numbers allude to the numbers of the warrants.
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209. The authority they had to hold the meeting ?—Yes.
210. What does the debtor side of the account consist of?-Of the monies they should have transmitted, according to their returns. "June 16th 1823, dues 9s."?-Each member from the 16th of June, half a year I suppose. That would be 18 members at 6 d. each.
211. What do you mean
212. Had each member to pay 6d. half-yearly?—Yes.
"Warrant, new rules and instructions prepared, 29, 109, 113, 124, 21. 2s." what does that mean?-Those are renewals of old warrants, half a guinea each.
214. Thirty certificates at No. 11, debit 37.; what is that?-Two shillings for a certificate.
215. What is the meaning of a certificate?-A sort of diploma or document, showing that he was a member. It was a form adopted by the grand lodge, to be adopted in every other lodge.
216. Did every member receive a certificate from the lodge he belonged to, that he was enrolled?-He should do so.
217. There appears further, "June the 24th, warrant, No. 21, 17. 6s."?— That appears to be at a shilling each.
218. Were you in the habit of making an entry for every warrant, and charging them with the dues payable to the grand lodge?-When they made their returns; sometimes I did not get returns for years, and the correspondence was so irregular, that I had great difficulty in keeping accounts. paid for clerks.
219. Are the Committee to understand that that is the district of Wigan?What is called the district of Wigan.
220. Look at the next page, 34; was that account kept by you, purporting to be "Debtor the deputy grand master of Rochdale, warrants 12, 68, 140, 170, 175 and 187" ?-Yes.
221. Is that the amount you debited them for?-Yes.
222. They appear to have paid up the full amount?—Yes.
223. Did you enter each district in the same manner?-I did not keep up the system of accounts I had first adopted; I found it impossible, not being allowed for clerks; we did not call them districts.
224. Is not the individual entered deputy grand master of Rochdale?—At Rochdale.
225. Those lodges depend upon him, and send their accounts to you through him? Yes.
226. The remittance was made by the grand master as if he had been at the head of those lodges, though you did not give him that name?—If there had been any other lodges in the neighbourhood he would have taken the whole control.
227. What rule had you for dividing districts?-We have no districts; they were discontinued on the formation of the new rules, as districts were thought to constitute a branch society.
228. Whenever masters holding warrants were in the neighbourhood of any deputy grand master, he took the control?-Yes; sometimes they chose to communicate direct themselves.
229. Did you send down the orders and the accounts for those different lodges to the individual who stands debited there in your account?--Sometimes I sent them direct to the masters, and sometimes they themselves sent up their
230. Did you make any communication to them in acknowledging their accounts?—Yes, here is a printed account which I sent down periodically, a sort of acknowledgement for sums received from time to time.
231. That was laid before the grand lodge, was it not?-No, it was merely annexed to the printed circulars to the country people, that they might see their money accounted for.
232. Do you mean to say, that a copy of that was sent to every lodge, or only to those who paid the money?-When printed they were sent to every master to whom the report was sent, being generally printed with the report. 233. Are the Committee to understand that you sent to each lodge formed 13 August 1835. under you a copy of each report ?-Yes.
234. And those having been laid before the grand lodge, formed part of their report?—No, this formed an addition to the sheet; if there was space, I inserted it in the sheet; it never went before the grand lodge; this printed acknowledgment was intended to answer the purpose of a receipt.
235. This book purports to contain the rules of the society, published in 1834 ? Yes.
236. You had at that time ceased to belong to the society?—Yes.
237. In Rule 41, under the heading "Mutual Assistance of the Brethren," you find the following words: "No person can be admitted into this institution for a less fee than fifteen shillings, nor advanced into the Purple order, after a reasonable probation, for less than an extra fee of five shillings, except in cases of non-commissioned officers, soldiers and sailors, when the fee of admission shall be at the discretion of the meeting;" is that rule in the original laws and ordinances ?--I think, to the best of my recollection, that was in some of the old Irish rules, and we generally took them up as far as local circumstances and our situation would admit.
238. Can you show the rule in the former book?-I have it before me, in the book published in 1832.
239. Are you aware there is no such rule in the Irish books?—I do not know; but if there is not, there was; of that I am certain; I think it was from that it was first taken; but as to sailors, I never knew of an Orange Lodge among sailors.
240. You are aware of that rule of your institution?—Yes, I am pretty sure it was taken from the old Irish rules.
241. Was this body of rules framed by you, or by your successor ?—This in my hand was principally framed by me, under the direction of counsel.
242. The edition of the rules published in 1834 has a preface, signed William Blennerhassett Fairman ?-That is taken, I believe, from the former book, with the exception of his signature instead of mine.
243. He is now deputy grand secretary?--Colonel Fairman is the person who succeeded me.
244. Those rules purport to have been passed at the anniversary meeting of the Imperial Grand Lodge, held on Wednesday the 4th of June 1834, His Royal Highness Ernest Duke of Cumberland, grand master of the empire, in the chair; and it is stated, that "the revised code of laws and ordinances herein set forth for the future government of the institution was approved and established;" and this rule is set forth in the regulations which appear to have been adopted or retained after the revision of the old ordinances?—It would appear so; but I have heard general complaints that that book was adopted by Colonel Fairman hastily without proper sanction, and that it has been up to the present moment without proper sanction; but I cannot speak to the fact.
245. Are you aware that these are sold by the principal printer of the establishment as the rules of the institution?-I see by the imprint they are.
246. Then what ground have you for believing that they were hastily formed, and agreed to without consideration?—I have heard complaints to that effect amongst many members.
247. This book which is now shown you, is intituled "Proceedings of the Grand Lodge?"-So it appears.
248. The last written page in this book is followed by a large mass of paper in blank; the last entry appears to relate to the 13th of February 1834?-So it appears.
249. Can you account for there being no recorded proceedings since that time, which exceeds the period of a year?-Perhaps negligence, as was sometimes the case with myself during a part of the time: that is, Colonel Fairman's book; with that I had nothing to do.
250. You have said you never knew that sailors belonged to the institution;
you find in that copy of the Laws and Ordinances the same rule which
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