868. You were sent to do what?-To receive the new system.

869. Can you state what the pass-words in the new system are ?—I can, but I must not.

870. Why must you not?-It is the only secret, if it may be so called, we have.

871. Can you give the signs?-I cannot give them for the same reason; they are secret the same as free-masonry.

872. Is the sign of a Purpleman different from that of an Orangeman ?— Yes.

873. And the pass-word of the Purpleman is different from that of the Orangeman?—Yes.

874. So that there are two bodies with different pass-words and signs for the purpose of recognition ?--Yes, the Purple order is the higher order of the

two.

875. You stated yesterday that you made no declaration when you entered the society?—No.

876. How are you bound to secresy if you made no declaration of secresy? That is the only thing we are bound to keep secret; I stated that I took an oath when I was admitted a member, and that it is in virtue of that oath I decline stating this; that was the full extent of the oath, to keep secret the signs, pass-words and lectures, with I believe an obligation to reveal any plot that might come to my knowledge against the State.

877. When did you take that?-When I was first initiated.

878. Who administered it to you?—I think Mr. Stockdale.

879. Has not the system been revived since that time?-In several in

stances.

880. All the declarations being laid aside, yet you consider yourself bound by the declaration ?-I consider myself so.

881. So that though you have taken no declaration since the system has been revived, and the system has been laid aside ostensibly, it remains in its full effect?-On the part of those who have taken the oath I should say it was so. 882. If an Orangeman was admitted two years ago, would he be at liberty to state the pass-words and signs?—I should say not.

883. Does he make a declaration of secresy?-It is more an understanding than a declaration, and is held to be confidential.

884. How is it that that understanding is communicated to the individual ?—I suppose traditionally; I should almost say from one to the other.

885. Do you mean to say that an Orangeman is not bound by distinct positive engagements to keep secret the signs and pass-words?-Every thing the Orangeman is bound by, will be found in that book.

886. Will not you state, without the trouble of looking into that book, whether an Orangeman is now bound to retain the pass-words and signs ?— I should consider he is bound.

887. You formed a lodge in Glasgow; did you impose secresy, and if so, in what words and by the medium of what declaration, on the persons you initiated? I have no difficulty in answering the question; after the lodge was formed, and I had put them into possession of the signs and pass-words, and taught them the lectures, I said, "Now, gentlemen, this is the only concealment the system imposes; you may mention any other part to any person you please."

888. They undertook to conceal them?-They undertook, inasmuch as they did not dissent.

889. Then you communicated the pass-words and signs?-Yes, and as gentlemen, I should consider that almost as binding as if they took an oath.

890. Are they not required under the ritual as laid down to be kept secret? -I consider them as secret.

891. When you went to Ireland did you communicate the pass-words and signs which had been agreed on by the grand lodge here, to the grand lodge in Ireland?—No, it commenced with them; they communicated them to us.

892. The Committee have understood that when some changes took place you had lately given them pass-words as well as taken them from them? No, they are a much larger body than we are, and there may be reasons for changing the pass-words in Ireland.

893. You have the same pass-words and signs as they have in Ireland ?— Yes.

Colonel
W. B. Fairman.

14 August 1835.

Colonel

W. B. Fairman.

894. This is a printed list of warrants published in 1826?—[The same being shown to the Witness.]-That is the list which was published.

895. This is corrected to 1830?-The book I should bring would be a book

4 August 1835 without any of those corrections.

896. Can you, the deputy grand secretary of the Orange Lodge, state what are the lodges now in existence under your society?-Not without the assistance of that book.

897. A great number of lodges have been created since 1830, have there not? Yes, and a great many have become dormant.

898. You have been instrumental in creating many?—Yes.

899. You took a journey for that purpose ?-I did.

900. Are you not able to give a correct list of the Orange Lodges?—I will do so, if I have time given me to form it.

901. What regiment was quartered in Birmingham when you were there?— I can state from recollection, it was the Yorkshire Greys, but I had no communication with them.

902. Were you at Wolverhampton -I was.

903. Do you know the 6th Dragoon Guards now at Sheffield ?—Yes.

904. Do not they hold a lodge under you ?—I believe they do; that is very

recent.

905. Do you recollect the number?-It has no number; I gave the warrant, I think, in Edinburgh, when I was last there.

906. Whom did you meet there?—I met a great number of old Orangemen ; but a warrant was applied for, which I gave on my own authority to an individual of the 6th Dragoons, and that is the only military warrant I ever recollect to have given.

907. Do you recollect his name?-I think the name was Wilson.

908. A private of the name of Wilson ?—I think that was the man; he was recommended to me by the other Orangemen as a very fit and proper man : that is the only military warrant I recollect ever to have granted.

999. When did you report that warrant to the grand lodge?—I do not know that I ever made any specific report of it.

910. Do you keep no record of it?-Yes, I believe that will be found in one of the long books.

911. When did you grant this warrant to the 6th Dragoons?-It must have been in the winter of 1833, or perhaps in the commencement of 1834. 912. Have received any you

he sent up a pound.

dues from that regiment since ?—Yes, I think

913. Can you show the entry of that pound in the account?—I cannot, but Mr. Colwill, who assists me, will show it in a moment.

914. Can you give the continuation of the account current ?--I am afraid I cannot do it at present, till it is made up and audited and published.

915. In this account there is in the month of July 1832, "Received from Dover Lodge, No. 114, dues to June 1882, from 1st Brigade, 17.;" did they hold a lodge under you ?—I think that was originally an Irish warrant; I do not recollect any military warrant, except the 6th Dragoons.

916. Why should they have sent their dues, if they did not hold under you? -When they were in Ireland they would of course send their dues to the grand lodge of Ireland, but when they came into England they came under our jurisdiction.

917. You granted them a warrant ?-We granted them an exchange.

918. Can you state when you exchanged the warrant of the 1st Rifle Brigade?-I cannot state that; I think that must have been before my time. 919. Will not the documents show that?-I dare say they will when the assistant can explain them.

920. Here is an entry: "For continental warrant and certificates to Brother Nucella, 27. 12s. 6d."?—That is what was referred to yesterday; that was the price of the warrant and the appendages to it.

921. Here is an entry for "Brother Smith, Woolwich, 8s. 3 d."; is that in the artillery?—I do not recollect, but I think it is very likely; I know there are some of the artillery in the lodge at Woolwich, and some civilians also; but whether specifically that man Smith was in the artillery I cannot say; the master of the warrant at Woolwich is not a soldier, but a shopkeeper, I think. 922. Here is, "Warrant 269, First Royal Dragoons, for dues, 11. 8s."; do you

recollect

recollect whether they hold under you?—I think that must be a very old

warrant.

923. Did you receive this money, 17. 8s., from the 1st Royal Dragoons?dare say it was received at the office, probably not by myself.

924. Was there any letter accompanied it?-I think it probable, but I cannot say.

925. You have no doubt the money was received, as it is entered here?—No doubt it was received?-I hold myself responsible for the money, having entered it there.

926. Here is another receipt of 17. 11s. 6d. for a new warrant from a regiment at Gibraltar; how do you explain that?—I cannot tell; I suppose the warrant was granted, but many of those applications were made during my absence.

927. This account appears to have been audited on the 14th of August by brothers Marr, Cooper and Eedes, and signed by you as deputy grand secretary and deputy grand treasurer ?—Yes.

928. You have no doubt of the receipt of the money?—None in the world. 929. Here is another entry of 31. received from Malta, the 7th Royal Fusileers, for a new warrant and certificate; was that received by you?—I should almost be inclined to say not by me personally; it has been handed over to me subsequently, or applied in the office to some official concerns.

930. Was it not received by you in your situation of grand treasurer ?—No doubt.

931: Can you furnish the correspondence remitting that, to explain the remittances and their object?—I will take a note of it, but I cannot undertake to furnish it without ascertaining the fact.

932. That money was paid for granting a new warrant, therefore a new warrant was granted?-That does not follow of course in some cases; I return the money if I do not like to grant the warrant.

933. But you debit yourself with the money?--Yes, I do not mean to say that it is so; I am going to state merely that it is probable that very likely this warrant was not granted, for if I were out of town at the moment, they might not take upon them the responsibility of granting the warrant, still they would give credit for the money. If my recollection serve me right, I am inclined to think that warrant has not been sent, perhaps from neglect; I have too much to do, and omit many things because I cannot do impossibilities; I have more than one person with an assistant is able to go through.

934. Would you take the money and not send the warrant?-We receive the money in advance in many cases.

935. Have you any doubt of the accuracy of the account?-None as to the receipt of the money.

936. Have you any entry of the return of the money?-Not that I am aware of.

937. Have you an entry in the book of the receipt of that money?—I dare say there is; but I do not know where to find it; I recollect receiving some small sums from Cox & Greenwood for military purposes.

938. There is an entry, "Received from the Right Reverend Sir Robert Peat, fees of initiation in the Orange and Purple Orders to the grand lodge, 17. 10 s. ;" was that for his being initiated?-Yes, the initiation fee.

1939. There appears, "Certificates to both orders, 5 s.;" is that merely that he might carry about him a certificate?—It is a certificate of his initiation; without that he would have no proof of his being initiated.

940. There is a fee, " Deputy grand chaplain, 17. 10s. ;" is that only for his

commission ?—Yes.

941. Then comes the communication of the new system, the visiting certificate; what is the nature of that?—It is a little parchment certificate; I have one I can produce.

[The same was put in, and is as follows:]

Colonel
W. B. Fairman.

14 August 1835.

(The Name to be in the hand-writing of the Brother holding this Certificate.)

942. Whenever the entry of the visiting certificate appears it is that form which will admit him into any lodge which happens to be sitting?—Yes.

943. Will it admit him into any lodge in Ireland?—I should think it would. 944. In fact, your certificates of admission are reciprocal ?--They are. 945. Here is an entry, "15 s., expenses to Kew, to attend His Royal Highness the grand master, by desire of Lord Kenyon, in July 1832;" do you recollect on what business that was?-No; I suppose it was for some special but I cannot recollect it; and if I could I should consider it purpose, confidential.

946. What is the mode of proceeding at the special meetings of the grand lodge, taking any one in which there are resolutions; in what form are those resolutions put to the parties at the meeting?-Generally by myself; we decide upon them in the grand committee; the grand committee meet a few days before the grand lodge assemble; and we do every thing we can in the committee to save the trouble of the grand lodge; then it requires only the confirmation of the grand lodge.

947-8. Do you enter your proceedings of the committee in the book?—No; I take minutes myself in a very brief way, and from those minutes I draw up a report, which I lay before the grand lodge, reading my minutes to the committee first, to say, "Gentlemen, is this a fair and correct report ?”

949. When a meeting of the grand lodge is assembled, is that report read over for confirmation?—Always read over, and usually confirmed, first generally, then

seriatim.

950. Is there ever a discussion on the resolutions as they are put seriatim ?Occasionally, but not often; the grand master or his representative in some cases exercises the power vested in him.

951. In all cases would not the resolutions be put seriatim?—Yes; we read the report throughout in the first instance, and then put them seriatim.

952. Are they put to the vote?-Partially; the Duke of Cumberland generally directs, and is absolute, if he choose to be so; the grand master is without control; he has only to say negative or affirmative, if he choose to do so.

953. Would he take the resolutions from your hand, and read them to the meeting for their approval ?--Yes, they are seconded, and His Royal Highness with his accustomed graciousness and condescension, then puts them to the assembly by show of hands.

954. Would the applications for warrants have been laid before the Committee before the special meeting?—No, that I manage myself.

955. Supposing there was a resolution to be made at a special meeting for the granting of a certain number of warrants, in what form would that be put to the meeting?--It would not go to the meeting at all, it would come to me as the deputy grand secretary.

956. Is

956. Is not that always laid before the special meeting ?-Not always; in a general way, I may say, I have granted so many new warrants; sometimes Lord Kenyon gives me a private hint, "We are anxious to get down to the House of Lords."

957. If there is a minute, "Resolved, That the following warrant be issued," would not that be put by the chairman at the meeting?-I should think so; it has been my study to curtail the business as much as possible; therefore I never lay before the grand lodge any thing I can do on my own authority.

958. When there is a resolution, "That the following warrant be allowed," would not that, as a matter of course, be put to the meeting by the chairman? -Certainly.

959. Would it be a matter of course that the entry of those warrants should be read over at the meeting ?--I should think so.

960. Would not the names of those persons be read over at the meeting by the chairman?—They would.

961. Then if the meeting agreed to them they would be allowed?—It is matter of form.

962. Would not the next step be, that such a resolution as that adverted to would be printed along with the other proceedings of that meeting, and be delivered to the chairman and other members present?—Yes.

963. You were present at the meeting referred to, though not secretary; can you state what would be the course at that meeting ?-Yes.

964. When there is an entry in the minutes of five applications for warrants, giving the names of persons, they would be read over in that form and passed by the meeting?--Yes, that was the course in Mr. Chetwoode's time; there has been more responsibility thrown upon me than was upon him, and my object is to save time.

965. Does any body else put the resolutions to the meeting?-Only the Duke of Cumberland, if he is in the chair; whoever is in the chair; I have had the honour of being frequently in the chair myself, and have put the resolutions.

966. Do you know the number of the lodge of private persons?—I have not given a number in all cases, for fear of giving a duplicate, not knowing the number of warrants that might be issued in my absence.

967. You saw the soldier of the 6th Dragoons of the name of Wilson, to whom you gave the warrant ?-I did.

968. It appears that warrants have been issued to the number of 332?-It does not therefore follow that there are so many warrants in existence; I do not know without referring; I have given a warrant in many cases without a number, not knowing what numbers might have been issued; in town, therefore, I make a little step in advance, by leaving half a dozen blank numbers to be filled up in my absence, to guard against duplicates, which would create confusion; and I act on the same principle in the country.

969. Why is a new warrant substituted for an old one?-It has been regulated that Irish warrants cannot be acted on in England, and on the same principle ours are not acted on in Ireland; in that case there is a new warrant, or one in exchange given, as a matter of course, taking for granted that the grand lodge of Ireland has ascertained the propriety of the issue in the first

instance.

970. Why is a new warrant applied for to the Grand Orange Lodge of Great Britain in lieu of those granted in Ireland; are they generally in the case of military men ?-On change of quarters, I apprehend.

971. It appears that a great number of new warrants have been granted ?— Exchanges, I believe.

Colonel

W. B. Fairman.

14 August 1835.