evidence, it was agreed, that the usual forms of the House should be observed. America would stop the fishery in time: that the only materials for building their fishing vessels got from London, were sails and rigging: that there is an Act which prevents the pressing of the men employed in the New England fishery: that the money arising from this fishery amounts to abount 330,000l.: that the Quakers are of a peaceable disposition, and did not send any delegates to the congress: that they chuse but one representative: that they drink tea: that they were no ways concerned in the destruction of the tea that they reside chiefly upon the island, and are no great politicians: that he never heard of any persecution at Halifax on account of religion, but has heard formerly of persecution on account of religion at Massachuset's Bay: that though the people of Nantucket would not by choice go to another part of America, where the trade was restrained, yet they would prefer going there rather than to Halifax that these people have not entered into any combi nation not to import goods from Great Britain, and that they think this Bill will restrain them from fishing after the 1st of June next." Whereupon the clause in the Bill relating to the island of Nantucket was read in the engrossed Bill, whereby it appeared that some words having by mis take been omitted in the printed Bill, was the reason of the witness's being of opi nion, that this Bill would restrain them from any fishery after the 1st of June next.-The witness being further examined, acquainted the House," That there are very few others than the islanders who have any shares in their fishery: that if the Bill passes they will not be able to get any provisions, without which they cannot carry on their fisheries that the provinces of New England and Massachuset's Bay have no superfluity of provision to supply them with: that New England is supplied with provisions from Baltimore, Pennsylvania, and Carolina: that provisions were sent to the army in the last war from Connecticut: that there is not a sufficiency raised in New England for their own consumption: that they supply the West Indies with live cattle, and can supply Nantucket with beef and pork, but not bread, not having sufficient for themselves: that Newfoundland is supplied with provisions from New York, Jersey, Pensylvania, and Maryland: that one reason of their wanting provisions, the great quantity consumed in the Then Seth Jenkins, a Quaker, was called in, and, upon his affirmation, acquainted the House," That he was a mariner, and is well acquainted with the island of Nantucket: that the number of inhabitants upon the said island is between 5 and 6,000, who are almost all employed in the fisheries that the number of vessels belonging to the said island is 140 sail, eight of which are employed in the coasting trade, and the rest in the fisheries: that the said island is about 15 miles long, and 3 broad; distant from the main 7 leagues: that it has but one harbour: that the produce of the said island will not maintain above 20 families: that nine tenths of the inhabitants are Quakers: that the vessels employed in the whale fishery sail at all seasons: that the limits of the whale fishery extend to Falkland's Island and the coast of Africa that their fishing vessels are generally 12 months on their voyage, sometimes 14 months: that this island is supplied with corn from the provinces of Carolina, New York, Virginia, and Rhode Island: that it is supplied with manufactures from London: that all their oil comes to Great Britain, except a little, which is consumed in the colonies: that if the inhabitants of this island are restrained from fishing, they would wait quietly till the Act was repealed, but that they could not subsist above a month: that the inhabitants might be under the necessity of removing from the island, but would not go to Halifax, it being a military government: that the vessels from England employed in the whale fishery have little or no success in it, owing to their not understanding it: that this island formerly belonged to the province of New York, at present it belongs to Massachuset's Bay: that no other men would, if trade is stopt, carry on the whale fishery, as they do not understand the nature of it: that the people of Nantucket, if their fishery is stopt, would not get employment from others: that their craft would be entirely lost, as they could not get purchasers for them: that the lands in Nova Scotia are in general very barren, except some in the Bay of Fundy, and some German settlements: that the lands in the Bay of Fundy are fertilized by being often overflowed: that the inhabitants of Nantucket are supplied with their materials for the fishery from London: that they have no stores laid in: that the non-importation agreement in is fishery and that so many men are employed in the fisheries, that there are not enough left at home to cultivate the land, but if not employed in the fishery might, in time, be able to raise more provisions: that if the people of the continent would or could send them provisions, they would have no money to pay for them if the fishery was stopt, but if it is not stopt they could pay for them: that there are many sheep raised on the island of Nantucket: that considerable quantities of oats and Indian corn are sent from Massachuset's Bay to the West Indies." Mr. Brooke Watson acquainted the House," That he was an American merchant, and well acquainted with the fisheries in North America: that he had been examined at the bar of the House of Commons on that subject: that in his passage to North America, in 1766, he made out a State of the American fishery in 1764; which State he carefully corrected from the best information on his arrival in North America;" and then produced the said State. He then acquainted the House, "That the American fisheries were much increased since 1764: that remittances were received for American fish from Spain, Portugal, and Russia: that large quantities of New England rum are sent to Quebec, for which they return money, bills of exchange on merchants in London, and some wheat: that it was too copious a subject for him to enter into a detail of the general state of trade between Great Britain and America: that his account of the exports from Great Britain to America was made up about the time of passing the Stamp Act: that a committee of merchants being appointed to draw up a state of the then trade between Great Britain and América, each merchant wrote the amount of his exportation from Great Britain upon a piece of paper, but did not sign his name to it, and put it into a box, and the whole amount is specified in the paper he had delivered in, or as near as could be that the merchants here generally deliver in at the Custom-house an invoice of one third more than is really shipped, and that no officer of the customs can make an exact estimate of what is exported to America: that the people of North Carolina cannot afford to clothe themselves so well as those of the other provinces: that he never was at the island of Nantucket, but that he knows there is a trade carried on from there in fish: that four of the provinces in New England do not raise bread sufficient for their own consumption, and that he has known great quantities of bread sent to Boston from London and New York: that he does not know of any immediate substitute for bread the people of Nantucket could eat: that if the fishery is stopt, the men employed in it cannot turn their hands to any other business: that the restraint upon the Nantucket whale fishery is taken off by a clause in the Bill: that he don't know if any other persons are concerned with them in their fishing ships: that they have all the materials for building their ships from England, except timber; that the indulgence given by the Bill to the people of Nantucket, he fears, will be of little consequence to them: that the Americans pay for the goods from Great Britain by the profits of their fisheries, and by the money they get for the ships which they build in America, and load with goods for the West Indies, where they receive sugars for their goods which they bring to Great Britain, where they and the ships are sold: that if the Bill passes, the Americans cannot make any returns to Great Britain for goods, nor pay the debts they now owe: that the merchants in London are not concerned in the property of the American fisheries: that the people of Nantucket cannot be supplied with flour from Quebec, because at Quebec they have only a number of mills sufficient to grind corn for themselves, but that they may have a supply from other provinces: that the weather is so severe at Quebec that the mills cannot work above seven months in the year: that he can't tell, if the other provinces in America should return to their allegiance, whether this Bill would affect Nantucket: that by this Bill, the people of one province being made answerable for another, Nantucket will not receive her usual supply of sustenance: that though the inhabitants of Nantucket are the obedient subjects to the laws of this country, and are, and have been, acting with all possible precaution, yet they must suffer on the account of others who may be refractory." Mr. Benjamin Lister acquainted the House," That he was a merchant adven. turer in the Newfoundland fishery for 38 years: that he goes to Newfoundland every summer, and is a large dealer in that trade: that he thinks, that if the American fishery was stopt, the foreign markets might be supplied with fish from Great Britain alone in future, and in part this year that the principal ports in England from whence the Newfoundland fisheries are carried on, are Pool and Dartmouth, that 400 sail are sent from Great Britain, the tonnage of which amounts to 36,000 tons, and 2,000 shallops, making 20,000 tons more that 20,000 men are employed, 12,000 of which return to Great Britain and Ireland: that they are obliged to carry out every year one man in every five, who is what they call a green man, or one who has never been at sea before, by which means the British fishery raises 3,000 fresh seamen every year: that they catch about 600,000 quintals of cod fish, which, for about seven years, has sold at 14s. the quintal: that the quantity of salmon caught amounts to about 3,000 tierces, at 6l. 5s. the tierce: quantity of cod oil 3,000 tons, at 231. per ton; seal oil 800 tons, at 25l. per ton: that they get few seal skins, the duty upon them here being so high as to be almost a prohibition of the importation of them; but the New England people are exempted from the payment of any duty upon them: that the returns from abroad for the produce of the British fishery is made in raw materials, Barilla oil, and some specie: that the net produce of the British fishery amounts to about 500,000l. all which centers in Great Britain: that all the ma- Mr. George Davis acquainted the House, terials of the ships employed in this fishery "That he was a Newfoundland merchant, are bought in Great Britain: that the and had been in that trade for 24 years: greatest part of the profits arising from that if the New England fishery was stopt, the American fishery centres in America: the foreign markets might partly be sup that in war time the British fishery is not plied this year from Great Britain: that carried on with the same advantage as the the French cannot increase their fishery New England fishery, as the New Eng- on the coast; and that their fish are not land fishermen are exempted by act of approved of at market, not being so well parliament from being pressed, which the cured as ours: that of late years the New British fishermen are not: that the Act of England fishery is much increased, and king William don't prevent the Americans the British fishery very much decreased: from fishing on the bank of Newfoundland, that the British ships employed in the but only from drying their fish on shore: Newfoundland fishery are generally about that he don't know if the whole fishery, 200 tons burthen, and their number of including the whale fishery, could be car- hands is one man to two tons: that the ried on by Great Britain only: that ships employed in the New England the Newfoundland fishery carried on fishery carry but twelve hands each: that from Great Britain is the beneficial nur- the New England fish are as good as ours, sery for seamen : that he would not but not fit for the Italian market: that the have the fishery confined only to the ports greatest part of the profits of the New of Pool and Dartmouth, but would have it England fishery centres there, but a small confined to Great Britain only: that if the part is returned here for the manufactures American fishery was stopt, other places of this country: that the New England in Great Britain besides Pool and Dart-fish sometimes bears a better price than mouth would engage in it: that the French ours: that the foreign markets might be would gain no share in it more than they have, as their fisheries are bounded: that it would increase the number of British and Irish fishing vessels, and consequently increase the number of British seamen: that the best-dried fish are best for the markets, and there are different markets for all the different sorts of fish; the Italian market is for small fish: that in time the British fishermen would be able to equal the New England fishermen, in curing fish for the Bilboa market: that in 1773 there was more fish caught than was wanted, and that the markets were glutted: that England can supply half of the fish for the American markets this year: that the French can only supply themselves: that he can't tell whether New England can sell fish cheaper than Great Britain, but that they can afford to sell it cheaper: whoever comes first to the banks has the right of drying: that if New England was restrained for ever from this fishery, it would be a benefit to Great Britain: that he buys 300 hogsheads from New England every year: that he thinks if New England was deprived of their fishery, they would not be able to import goods from Great Britain: the ships from Great Britain to Newfoundland now employed make but one trip in a year, but may make two in future: the British fish sell for one pound a ton, the American fish from 14s. to 20s. per ton." not so good seamen as ours: that in the last war very few of them were employed on board our men of war, perhaps there might be six or ten of them on board a man of war of 60 guns: that if this temporary restraint on the New England fishery was made perpetual, it would be a benefit to Great Britain." Sir Hugh Palliser acquainted the House, "That in the year 1768 he was governor of Newfoundland: that the number of ships then employed in that fishery was 389, shallops 2,109, the tonnage of which amounted to the number of men supplied entirely from Great Britain if the New England fishery was stopt: that it is not more expensive to send ships from Great Britain than New England: that the New England men have more wages than ours: that they begin to fish sooner than we, but it is very little advantage to them: that our men entering on board their fishing ships is a great hurt to the British fishery: that the witness's trade is from London: that if this Act should pass, he should reap benefit from it: that he has already enlarged his capital, and shall enlarge it more if the Act passes: that the time of the New England ships getting to market depends upon the seasons: that they get something sooner to the markets, except the Spanish markets, than the British ships that he knows no other reason for the Italians preferring the small fish than their pride, which makes them prefer the having one whole fish at table rather than a piece of a large fish: that though all the men carried out in the British ships are not employed in navigation, the greatest part of them going out to be employed in the fishery; yet all that are carried out return seamen: that a New England ship of 200 tons carries about fourteen or sixteen men, and has no boats: that a British ship has but one boat, the men being distributed in the shallops for fishing." Molyneux Shuldham, esq. acquainted the House, "That he has been governor of Newfoundland for three years: that the quantity of cod caught last year amounted to 759,877 quintals, at 9s. a quintal: that the number of men employed in this fishery amounts to 23,652, all of whom become sailors: that he has had great complaints of the outrages committed by the New England crews employed in the fishery: that they cannot take any seamen out of the New England ships, but that a great many are got out of the British fishing ships: that the New England ships carry on an illicit trade with the French: that they load with provisions and lumber, go to meet the French ships at sea: that they sell them ship and cargo, and take French manufactures and India goods in exchange that the New England ships carry provisions to the French at Miquelon and Saint Pierre, and he supposes they must have a superfluity of provisions: that they supply the French fishermen with flour from Indian corn: that numbers of our seamen desert to the New England ships: that the New England seamen are and 19,198: that this fishery is the best nursery: that the men are better for the men of war than those taken out of the colliers: that it would be impossible to man a fleet but in a great while, if it was not for the men they get from the Newfoundland fishery: that few or no seamen are got from the New England fishery: that if the New England fishery was entirely stopt, the French would not be benefited, as the English are in possession of the markets: that he does not know any thing about the island of Nantucket: that whe ther the restraining of the New England fishery is temporary or perpetual, it will be an advantage to Great Britain: that the fishery might be carried on from Great Britain, Ireland, Jersey, and Guernsey, which would greatly encrease the nursery for seamen: that the New England ships carry provisions to Saint Pierre and Miquelon: that the New England fishery would be an advantage to Great Britain, if there was a power given to press their men." March 16. The Earl of Dartmouth moved that the Bill be committed. The Marquis of Rockingham opposed the motion. His lordship asserted that the Bill was oppressive and tyrannical throughout; that the principle which pervaded it, and the means of putting it in execution, had one merit, that of consistency; and that from the same motive, he should heartily dissent to every syllable of its contents. He meant not to trouble their lordships in any future stage of the Bill, or perhaps at all on the same subject, during the continuance of the session, for which reason he hoped for their indulgence on the present occasion. He desired to repeat, that the present Bill, and every other framed on the same principle and directed to the same object, to be attained only by the most flagrant acts of cruelty and oppression, must for ever continue to meet with his strongest disapprobation. After examining the general principle of the Bill, which he strongly condemned and reprobated in the most marked expressions, he proceeded to examine the cruel and persecuting means devised for enforcing it, which he said exactly resembled the mode adopted by marshal Rozen, king James the 2nd's French general in Ireland, in order to reduce the rebellious citizens and other defenders of Londonderry. They, brave men, as the Americans are now, were stiled traitors and rebels; and they, as well as our rebellious subjects in America, were to be starved into compliance; that is, the means employed were to be justified by the goodness of the cause. He then read an order from Rozen, for obliging the garrison of Derry to submit, which was to collect the wives, children, and aged parents of the garrison, to drive them under the walls of the town, there to perish in the presence of their parents, husbands, and other relations; and if they offered to return, to fire on and massacre them. But weak, infatuated, and bigoted as that prince was, his heart revolted at such a horrid expedient of subduing his enemies; for as soon as it reached his knowledge, he immediately countermanded the barbarous order, and left the innocent and inoffending to their liberty. The principle he contended was the same; the rebels might have avoided the barbarous purpose, by submitting; so we should be told might the rebels of America. His lordship then entered into a comparative view of the trade of America at different periods; and that of New England in particular. He quoted from the papers lying on the table, that the exports in 1704 amounted to no more than 70,000l. per annum ; in half a century, in 1754, it was 180,000/.; about the time of the repeal of the Stamp Act, in 1764, it was nearly 400,000/.; and within the last ten years, it had so prodigiously increased, as to amount to 7 or 800,000l. This increase had extended itself, he was well assured, in pretty nearly the same proportion to all the other colonies; and it appeared by a gentleman who gave evidence at the bar (Mr. Watson) that the amount of total exports in the last mentioned period, was above 2,600,000l. His lordship said, he could not help remarking the agreement there was between that gentleman's account, and the one on the table, which made the exports to all America in 1764 about 2,700,000l. His lordship dwelt on the strange, mutilated, imperfect accounts laid by the King's servants before parlia ment; and particularly relative to a letter written by lord Dunmore, giving an account of the then state of Virginia, dated in December, in which he omits to take the least notice of the association and declaration entered into by the army under his command early in the preceding November. It was impossible that his lordship could be ignorant of so important a fact, which happened on the spot; but were that even so, a paper which he held in his hand, made it clear, that his lordship could be at least no stranger to its being published at Williamsburgh in Virginia, the seat of his government, two days preceding the date of his dispatch. Perhaps it might have been a spurious ac count, and as such his lordship could not have taken notice of it; but if that were the case, he should be obliged to some noble lord in administration to rise and tell him so, otherwise he must continue to think that the proceeding of the noble governor was not to be accounted for, consistent with his duty, or at least with the duty of those, who, having better informa tion, thought proper to hold it back. The noble marquis concluded with a general disapprobation of all the measures pursued relative to America, since the repeal of the Stamp Act; and predicted that an useful and constitutional agreement in sen timents, and a cordial reciprocity of interests, would never take place between them and the mother country, till the same principles were once more recurred to. The Earl of Carlisle was surprized that the noble marquis could possibly conceive the Bill was either intended, or could be supposed to operate in the manner he af fected to think it would; no such thing being meant, no such thing could take place. The present was not a question about taxation; it was not involved in dif ficulty, but simply, whether we were jus tified in employing the most lenient me thods of bringing America back to obedience and a proper sense of her duty. The Bill was not formed on the narrow views of loading her with taxes, or for the sake of a paltry revenue. He believed the ministry had no design of forcing her into any such concession; if they had, he was certain that neither he, nor any of the other lords who intended to vote for the measure, had any such desire. |