number of assailants; whereas the superiority on the part of the provincials was confessed on all hands to be in the direct contrary proportion; and yet, the King's troops were victorious. He commented on the proposition recommended by the noble duke, and contended, it was in fact giving up the whole contest, and at once relinquishing our rights of sovereignty; and every possible benefit we are entitled to claim in the way of trade and commerce; that though we should agree to repeal all the laws relative to America, passed since the year 1763, yet in all probability the noble proposer, as well as the proposition, would meet with the treatment and contempt that, last session, a noble lord, now absent (the earl of Chatham) did, which was, to be condemned in pamphlets and news-papers, and his person reviled in the most reproachful terms in scurrilous publications and ballads, hawked about the streets of their several capitals by old women and boys. He pursued the idea of the noble mover of the Address, relative to foreigners and Papists, in the instance of France and Sardinia, who constantly retained large bodies of Swiss in their armies, who professed the Protestant religion; and contended generally, that if the measure of reducing America was a right one, it was proper of course to enforce it; and he was astonished to hear the power of the King to call the aid of his Hanoverian subjects to his assistance doubted, or the propriety of employing foreigners, to effectuate measures previously determined to be necessary, condemned.

Lord Lyttelton resented what he deemed an implied censure on his noble relation (the earl of Chatham) who, he observed, unfortunately for his country, was absent from his duty in parliament; being confined to his bed by a severe fit of illness. The noble earl, who endeavoured to load that truly great man with ridicule, ought to recollect and well weigh a character which he was no more able to depreciate by an attack in his absence, than he could add to it, by any encomiums it was in his power to bestow. That great man was the ornament of his country, and the delight and admiration of every man, of every party, who wished well to it. Though a young man, he remembered when this country was pretty much in such a predicament as at present; and he remembered too, that that steady patriot and able politician rescued it from the

brink of destruction; and he was now fully convinced, its salvation, nay indeed its existence, was only to be obtained and preserved by the same means. His lordship turned to the question, and maintained the sovereignty of the legislature in its fullest extent; but condemned in the most marked language, the conduct of administration. He said, they had totally failed in their promises and information, and were no longer to be trusted or supported with safety. He alluded to his conduct during last session, when he voted with the ministry, how strenuously he recommended vigorous measures, or none; and how frequently he pressed them on this head. On the whole, therefore, though he could not vote for the Amendment, because the Americans were not declared to be in rebellion, he totally disapproved of the Address, and the measures recommended in it. He said matters were now entirely altered. Boston was turned into an hospital, where more died of famine and want of care, than by the sword. We probably had not a single foot of land in our possession on the continent of America. The expence and hazard of reducing it, the little dependence there was to be placed in men, who had been misled themselves, or purposely misled others, operated so strongly on his mind, that he could no longer lend his support to such measures, accompanied by such circumstances; and consequently must unite in opinion with the noble duke, in wishing that all the Acts respecting America, passed since the year 1763, might be repealed, as a ground for conciliation, a full restoration of the public tranquillity, and return of America to her wonted obedience, and subordinate dependence on the mother country.

The Bishop of Peterborough (Dr. John Hinchcliffe) answered some reflections which dropt from lord Sandwich on the obstructions thrown in the way of administration, by declaring, that he was so far from having had any disposition to clog the wheels of government, that he had given his vote last year for the measures of the ministry, upon the ground of the information he had received from reading the American correspondence; his lordship, however, reminded the House that, notwithstanding the vote he then gave, he expressly declared, that reconciliation last year was the object he ever had in view, and meant not to lose sight of. He hoped therefore, that the lords

would not impute it to a spirit of faction, if (as he thought the state of things now very different from what they appeared then,) he should be constrained to withhold his consent from the Address. My reasons, he added, for so doing, I will simply, and as briefly as possible, lay before your lordships.

It appeared to me, in the last session, to be the general opinion of all such as I thought best capable to form a judgment what were the most probable means to effect a lasting re-union with the colonies, that even a shew of perseverance to support the authority of the legislature would intimidate the factious, and restore peace and tranquillity. Experience has now convinced me that a mistaken judgment upon this point was formed by the friends of administration, both here and in America. The declaration of perseverance went forth, and though backed by 10,000 men, has not intimidated a single colony. We were assured last year, that upon the appearance of a re-inforcement which could protect them from the insults of the mob, a considerable party would declare themselves in favour of the mother country: that there is no reason now to flatter ourselves with such an expectation is too obvious to be insisted upon. It was said too, in the spring, that the Americans would not, some indeed were confidently persuaded they could not, fight; yet we now certainly know that they can and will fight, for they have fought. It is true, they were defeated, but considering the stand they made, and the intrepidity of the troops they had to contend with, they were not disgraced by their defeat. We were made to believe, a year ago, that the restraints put upon the commerce and fisheries of the colonies would press so hard upon their interests, as to bring them to submission. We have now learnt that their commerce is but a secondary consideration: if it may not be called liberty itself, that they are contending for, it is at least the opinion of liberty, which operates no less forcibly on the passions of mankind.

Having thus contrasted the past and present state of American affairs, he said, that he was persuaded many lords besides himself had, on some or all of the grounds he mentioned, been induced to approve of the measures proposed in the last session; he owned they were measures of coercion and correction, which he then thought advisable, because he believed they tended

to effect peace and re-union. But, he added, it seems to me unfortunately for both countries, that we have lost sight of the end in the means. It is no longer a question whether reconciliation is best brought about by concession or force; but whether or no we shall engage in a ruinous and expensive war, till one or both countries is sacrificed to resentment, on a barren point of honour. I call the subject of our dispute a barren point of honour, for I am persuaded, there is scarce a man in this country, who thinks now that America, if subdued, will be brought to submit to taxation. Be the right of the legislature what it may, such as I have conversed with, hold the exercise of it not only inex pedient but impracticable. Admit, then, the point of honour established by a series of victories, it must still remain a barren speculative principle of pre-eminence, and all the advantage which can possibly be expected from it, can never be adequate to the expence of blood and treasure that must necessarily be wasted in the fruitless acquisition.

The noble viscount who has moved this Address, has been pleased to lay a great stress upon the assurances given by the courts of France and Spain. I am free to admit that nothing is to be apprehended from either of our rival powers, while our domestic disputes continue. They must be bad politicians indeed, to hazard any thing for reducing our force, while they see us so eagerly doing their business at our own expence.

The other noble viscount who has seconded this Address, has acquainted your lordships, that to his own personal knowledge, our great manufacturing towns feel no decline of trade from the interruption of the American commerce. They have, his lordship says, as full employment, and as ample orders from their factors as ever. Be it so: what is it that the noble lord can infer from this concession, unless it is that our manufactures can do as well without the American trade as with it? Why then, I would ask, are we sacrificing the flower of our army, and burthening posterity with an enormous debt; better surely will it be to cut off at once a limb that is of no use, than to hazard the mortification of the whole body, by endeavouring to preserve it.

His lordship proceeded then to give his opinion upon the use that might be made of the Petition from the Congress, as a ground of conciliation. I am free to own,

said he, I consider the Petition as a refined piece of political subtlety; yet I plainly perceive from it, that there is either a difference of sentiment among the leaders, or that the bulk of the people do not even now wish for a total separation, whatever may be the object of some among the leaders who direct their councils.

It is evident that the Petition is expressed in terms which, considering the circumstances of the country, are more moderate and dutiful than could have been expected. Suppose, then, that this was calculated to gain the approbation of such, as wished still for peace and conciliation. It is plain, that some such there still are among them, and that their leaders thought it prudent to manage them, though they had address enough to clog the whole with a title and subscription which they meant should render it inadmissible. Are your lordships to be so imposed upon; will you be for rejecting this Petition altogether, or will you not find some means of admitting it, so as to defeat the purposes of those who in their hearts are enemies of peace? I beg leave to remind the House of a wise answer given lately by one of his Majesty's governors to a petition of a provincial congress. "I cannot," says sir James Wright, "look upon your meeting as constitutional, but as your petition is expressed in terms of duty and loyalty, and the ends proposed are such as every good man must wish to promote, I shall consent."

To conclude, was there no other consideration than the great importance of the question, whereon not the commerce only, but in a great measure the very being of the British empire depends, it would justify delay, till all the light which can be collected is thrown upon the subject. The Amendment proposed by the noble marquis seems directed principally to this end, and for that reason I shall give my consent to it. Whatever vote your lordships shall hereafter come to, weigh first the hazards of war, weigh the heavy expence of acquiring your object against its real value. I am too much pleased with the spirit of the noble lord's idea, who declares the British troops are invincible, to question it. Cast the sword of victory, then, into the scale of honour. It will still be found wanting.

The Earl of Sandwich said, he had no intention to depreciate the character of the noble earl, who he understood was

prevented by illness from attending his duty in parliament; he never meant to ridicule him, and still much less so in his absence.

The Duke of Grafton rose to explain, concerning something which had furnished lord Sandwich with an opportunity of supposing his grace had passed some degree of censure on the naval operations carried on in America. Nothing could be further from his intentions; for he had a very high esteem for the gentlemen of the navy; and took a peculiar pride in being immediately descended from one of the profession.

The Earl of Effingham, after taking a short review of the conduct of administration, turned his attention to the measures proposed by them; and supposing that it should be agreed to carry them into execution, asked lord Townshend whether he thought 60,000 men would be sufficient to recover America, and entirely subdue it?

Viscount Townshend replied, it was a question he could by no means undertake to answer; that he was acquainted only with that part in which he had acted himself; that there was a very able man (sir Jeffery Amherst) who, it was reported, would shortly be called up to a seat in that House: this gentleman had traversed the principal communications of the northern parts of that continent: and he believed had been consulted. He assured their lordships, that for his own part, he had never been applied to in council or elsewhere; but if the question had been put generally to him, whether such a force was sufficient for the purpose, he should very fairly reply, from his general knowledge, and from all the lights he had been able to obtain from history, that he never knew an instance, where 60,000 men were in possession of the posts proper to be occupied, in which they had failed.

The Earl of Dartmouth was astonished how any noble lord could condemn administration, or withdraw his support from them, without at least giving them a fair trial; it was never supposed, if America united, that to reduce them would be the work of one summer; the measures of last session were directed to the protection of the province of Massachuset's Bay entirely; as such, they had been wisely planned, and must have been successful, if a variety of events, impossible to be foreseen or provided against, had not united to defeat them; such, in particular, +

was the change of sentiments in the peo-, ple of New York, and the unexpected unanimity and unforeseen measures adopted by the continental congress.

Earl Grosvenor said, he was not used to speaking. Politics were not in his way; but he thought the King's Speech was a good speech, and as such ought to be an swered in the terms moved by the noble lord.

The Duke of Manchester, after examining the true purport of the Speech, which he treated as the speech of the minister, submitted his reasons for disapproving of the Address, and for agreeing with the Amendment. His grace observed, that it had been the general language of the ministry, and many other noble lords last session, to impute all opposition to their measures to factious and ambitious motives. He was sorry to hear the same language renewed this day. His grace solemnly protested, as long as he had the honour of a seat in that House, he would never endure it. If the noble lords who made the accusations had grounds to justify what they said, he called on them to bring them forward, or confess they had no authority for what they said or insinuated. If they are silent, then, said his grace, I shall suppose they have none. The House must suppose so, and as such will not permit them to interrupt or disturb that decorum and freedom of debate for which your lordships have at all times been so justly distinguished. [Mention was made, by some of the lords in administration, of the several addresses lately presented to his Majesty; that they contained the fullest approbation of the present measures, and must be presumed were the voice and sense of the nation.]

Lord Craven said, the manner and the means employed to obtain these addresses were well known. He should mention only that which was obtained in his own neighbourhood, which, he said, was shamefully smuggled; no notice being previously given the citizens of Coventry. It was drawn up by the mere agents and creatures of administration; nine-tenths who signed it never heard a syllable of its contents; and yet, with all the arts used to deceive and mislead, no more than 117, most of them ignorant of what they were doing, could be prevailed upon to sign it; while the Address he interested himself in, and which carried truth to the foot of the throne, attended with all the previous forms which should ever accompany de

clarations of this nature, where the sentiments of the people ought to be faithfully collected and expressed, was signed by 406 names; and he could assure their lordships, that in this number there was not one bought voice nor one pauper. From this instance, which came immediately within his own knowledge, he was led strongly to suspect, that most of the addresses alluded to by the noble lords were obtained in a similar manner; and hoped therefore their lordships would build nothing on so weak and rotten, though specious a foundation.

The Duke of Richmond reminded administration of the very predictions which they now owned were the cause of their miscarriage. He told them that he, and many other lords, had repeatedly pressed them on their real or pretended want of information; that if they were in earnest, their armaments, both by land and sea, were too weak; and if they were not in earnest, it was at once sacrificing the blood, treasure, commerce, and honour of this nation, to a most criminal lust of place and emolument, supposing that bloody measures were the tenure by which they held their offices. His grace observ ed, that the public papers held out threats against some of the members of both Houses, in order to stifle the freedom of debate; that he understood he was one of the persons singled out and meant to be honoured on this occasion; that he now called on his threateners and accusers, and, (striking his hand on his heart) said, If any such be present, I will not pretend to say there are, I defy them; I scorn their menaces, and invite them to make good their charges. He did not suppose, he said, that any noble lords in adminis tration would encourage or employ such base, futile, or scandalous means to intimidate members from doing their duty, though they were certain that such a scheme would have the desired effect.His grace next turned his attention to what a noble earl had said, respecting the cowardice of the Americans. He begged leave to remind his lordship, that he did not speak conditionally; there was no if at the time the charge was made, it was a positive one, and could not now be ex plained away by conditions introduced for the first time; yet however positive the noble lord might have been then, or guarded he might be now, he could inform his lordship that the New England people were brave; that they had proved it; that

the general who commanded at Bunker'shill had confessed it; that another (general Burgoyne) no less celebrated for his talents than zeal for the cause, had confirmed it; that an officer, a particular friend of his, on the spot, had united in the same opinion. He combated the facts and conclusions of the noble earl, relative to the particulars of that day. He denied the superiority of numbers, and observed that he never recollected an instance where lines had been forced and no prisoners taken but such as were wounded. The noble viscount who moved the Address, when questioned about the practicability of reducing and holding America in subjection, instanced the conquest of Corsica. The difference of extent of the two countries, the vicinity of the island to France, and the number of persons in arms to resist, which were no more than 6,000; added to the immense superiority of the French in point of numbers, was sufficient to shew how little the two cases were alike: and as to his lordship's general answer, that 60,000 men in possession of all the posts of a country would in all probability succeed, he must have supposed the conquest as a matter previously effected; because, he could see very little or no difference between the actual conquest of a country, and occupying all the posts which command the necessary communication by land and sea : that not being the case here, he must therefore look on his lordship's answer as deciding nothing. He condemned the Speech and Address with severity, and concluded with calling on the law lords to rise and give their opinions, whether his Majesty was properly advised in taking Hanoverians into British pay, and bring ing them into the dominions of Great Britain, without the previous consent of parliament.

Earl Gower confessed that administration had been deceived and misled; and that, consequently, the measures taken were by no means proportioned to the nature and extent of the service; that the accounts received from the southern provinces led to this mistake; and that several other events had happened, which it was impossible to foresee or prevent. In particular, the province of New York had been overawed and compelled, by a party of insurgents from Connecticut, into measures they would never have otherwise adopted; that still, if the friends of government were emancipated by the aid of [VOL. XVIII.]

a force from this country, he had strong expectations, the colonies, by that means, might be brought to a sense of their duty, without the mother country being obliged to have recourse to those scenes of misery and desolation, described by the noble lords on the other side. His lordship lamented, that those who had hitherto approved of the propriety of the measures respecting America, should so suddenly abandon them; or that any foundation should be laid, for suspecting they wished to defeat every thing they had on a former occasion expressed the strongest desire to support. He was convinced, that the proposition of the noble duke would never answer the end proposed; and that the question was now simply reduced to the alternative of coercive measures, qualified in the manner he had pointed out, or for ever relinquishing any power, dominion, or advantage from our colonies in North America.

Lord Ferrars, of Chartley, apologized for his youth, and said, that whatever desire he might have to follow the opinion of his very near and noble relation, yet, as a lord of parliament, in the execution of a trust, and in the discharge of a duty, he felt himself called to a conscientious discharge of both. Such being his motives, he found himself under a necessity of supporting the Amendment.

The Earl of Shelburne. I may, from this moment, congratulate the public, that the ministry have pronounced the funeral oration of their addresses. From the language of those addresses, and from the various threats which were industriously circulated, I came to town with some apprehensions, not for myself, but lest the zeal of some of my friends for the violated rights of their suffering fellow subjects, should have led them into unwary expressions which might have enabled some dark designing lawyer to stab the public freedom through the indiscretion of an individual. I do not blame the addressers who have thus unjustly aspersed the characters of those whose aim is, by steady, just, and temperate counsels, to save this deluded country from destruction. They were deceived: they were deceived by these very ministers, who being now called upon, explicitly avow, without any appearance of shame or remorse, that they have no evidence to support their accusation.

It is with equal astonishment and concern, my lords, that I perceive not the [3 A]