bodies, including the President and Vice | Report which informed Parliament and President of the Wesleyan Conference, the public generally of the anomalous and to many registrars of marriages in state of the law with reference to marEngland. This Circular elicited valu- riage, and the necessity of some remedy. able information; and witnesses from all When his noble and learned Friend parts of the country were also examined. asked whether it was the intention of The inquiry extended over three years, the Government to introduce any meaand this was not attributable to any sure he assumed that he meant during want of diligence, the reason being that the present Session. He must say briefly some of the Commissioners had judicial why it had been impossible for him to and other duties to discharge in Ireland undertake a duty of that description. and Scotland, which rendered it difficult When he was first called upon to occupy to fix the meetings to suit their conve- the position he had now the honour to nience. If, however, any of them were hold, he certainly had but a short time absent they informed themselves of the in which to prepare any measure of evidence which was taken, and the result law reform of any general importancewas that the Report was signed by all though many subjects presented themthe Commissioners except Lord Mayo, selves to his attention, on three of which who, having been prevented by his duties he had sat upon Commissions. One was as Irish Secretary from attending the the matter that was now brought to their later meetings, did not think himself Lordships' attention, another the patent justified in affixing his signature. The law, and the third our system of judicaLord Chancellor of Ireland and Mr. ture. All of these subjects were of conMonsell signed it, with the reservation siderable importance, and as to the last that they dissented from the recom- of them the Report had only been made mendations as to divorce, believing the during the past week, and recommended marriage tie to be indissoluble, and an entire review and re-organization of divorce à vinculo to be contrary to the our whole judicial procedure. The Patent law of God; while the Lord Justice Commission had reported long since, but General took exception to every part of no proceeding had been taken upon it, the Report involving a change in the no doubt in consequence of the difficulty principle of the Scotch law, holding that of the subject. Besides these three subpresent consent to be husband and wife jects there were two others of importance deliberately interchanged between a man and a woman labouring under no incapacity to contract, makes marriage between them, without the necessity either of a religious ceremony or of a compliance with any statutory forms or solemnities. The recommendations of the Commissioners he believed to be highly beneficial; but he would not now enter into them, since he was not asking their Lordships to adopt them. His only anxiety was that the expectations of the public should not be disappointed by no action being taken on the Report, and it being peculiarly a task for the Government he should be glad to see it undertaken by his noble and learned Friend on the Woolsack, for no man was better qualified to undertake a work of the kind. THE LORD CHANCELLOR said, that his noble and learned Friend (Lord Chelmsford) had most truly stated that the subject was one of deep importance, and he felt grateful to him for having originally suggested that there should be a Commission, the result of which was a those of Bankruptcy and the Law of Charitable Trusts. He undertook the duties of his Office in December last, a period of four months ago. For the first three months he was occupied in the Court of Chancery, and sitting judicially in their Lordships' House, and he thought it would have been an improper assumption of vigour on his part if he had attempted to grapple with the five subjects during the single month that was left to him. He therefore selected one of them, and bankruptcy naturally suggested itself to his mind because the subject had been frequently before Parliament, the defects in the existing law were universally admitted, and the whole mercantile community was anxious to have the law of debtor and creditor put upon a satisfactory footing. He had further the advantage of considering the three different Bills that had been brought before Parliament upon the subject-all prepared with the greatest care and deliberation-and the various Reports that had been made. He also had interviews with various deputations from mercantile 66 of opinion as would be neces gislation affecting the domes of the community. He trust der these circumstances, thei would be of opnion that he h a wise conclusion. TENURE (IRELAND) BILL A Bill to simplify the Law of T land-Was presented by The Lord read i. (No. 36.) House adjourned at till To-morro before HOUSE OF COMM Monday, 5th April, 1869 MINUTES.]-NEW MEMBERS SWORN MATES. bodies, and in this way he had been able to frame a measure which originally he intended to submit to their Lordships for consideration; but some of the deputations were extremely anxious that the measure should be introduced first into the other House. He thought there would be a general concurrence of opinion that such a measure should be introduced into the other House rather than in their Lordships' House. For his own part he readily acceded to that view, and the measure had accordingly been introduced elsewhere," and would, he hoped, in due time, be presented for their Lordships' approbation. The Law of Marriage was a subject of the deepest interest to the whole community. After three years' consideration a Report had been agreed upon by the members of the Commission with one exception, but that exception was the Lord Justice General of Scotland. The subject, however, was one which affected every family in the kingdom, and sufficient time had certainly not been given to the public to weigh the consequences which might result from the alterations recommended by the Commissioners; and though to proceed with immediate legislation upon it might present the appearance of vigour and alacrity, still their might possibly succeed a charge of hastiness and inconsideration. With regard to charitable trusts, he hoped, at a later period of the Session, to call attention to the subject, POST OFFICE-COMMUNICATION for none required more careful consideration; but he should be sorry to propose legislation upon it at a time when there was no probability of its securing sufficient attention. A measure which equalled, if it did not exceed, in importance any measure which had been submitted to Parliament for many years past was now pending in the other House; and considering the time which its consideration must necessarily occupy, it would be unadvisable to introdece any measure involving changes in the law on subjects of great importance and difficulty. There was, moreover, considerable doubt whether, in one portion of the country at least, the recommendations of the Marriage Law Commissioners would meet with general acquiescence, and, judging from the publications expressly interested in legal objects, he doubted whether the Report had been so maturely weighed by the public as to warrant the expectation of such a general concurrence The Lord Chancellor PUBLIC BILLS- Second Reading - Ba * AUSTRALIA.-QUESTION. MR. YOUNG said, he wished t the Under Secretary of State fo Colonies, Whether any Correspon has taken place between the Aust Government and the Home Govern on the subject of a Fortnightly I Communication, subsequent to the respondence included in the Parlian ary Paper of 24th July 1868, and, whether he has any objection to lay same upon the Table of the House? MR. MONSELL said, in reply, there had been a good deal of co spondence as to postal communica with the Australian colonies subsequ to that included in the Parliament Paper to which the hon. Member ferred, arising chiefly out of the po conference held in Melbourne. Th were no public despatches specially the subject of a fortnightly postal co munication, but there would be no jection to produce the correspondence the hon. Gentleman chose to move for a debate on the subject, and the House them. He might add that the colonial did not seem to look very favourably on newspapers showed that great interest a tax of this nature. As far as I am existed throughout Australia on this concerned, I should be glad to see an subject, and that all the colonies were income tax imposed on charities. But anxious for a fortnightly postal com- it appeared to me that my duty was not munication. to take any action at all until the pleasure of the House was more distinctly known. If it be the opinion of the House that such a tax should be imposed, I shall give my hearty assent to it. In the meanwhile I shall propose the Estimate as it stands, and the House can do whatever it thinks right in the matter. COPYHOLD, INCLOSURE, AND CHARITY COMMISSIONS.-QUESTION. MR. GOLDNEY said, he wished to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, Whether any and what arrangements have been made to carry into effect the Resolution of the House BANKRUPTCY BILL.-[BILL 50.] (Mr. Attorney General, Mr. Solicitor General.) SECOND READING. Order for Second Reading read. MR. NORWOOD said, that the Bill had only been delivered to Members on Thursday, and there had consequently not been time to ascertain the feeling of the country either respecting it or the other measure (Imprisonment for Debt Bill) which must be considered with it. He would therefore suggest that, in order to afford the Attorney General every possible facility for carrying the measure forward, the Bills should now be read a second time, but that the discussion should be postponed until the Motion for going into Committee. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL: I have no objection to such a course being pursued. THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: I have to inform the hon. Member and the House that the Inclosure Commissioners have made provision by fees in their office for raising £17,000 towards their expenditure, which is a little more than £20,000. I hope this arrangement will prove a satisfactory one. I am sorry to say that I cannot give as favourable an account with regard to the Charity Commission. Wishing to carry out the Resolution of the House, I put myself into communication with that body and begged them to consider any means which might occur to them for providing the sum required to defray their expenditure, but after a good deal of consideration they reported that they did not see how by fees in their office they could raise much more than MR. JESSEL said, he did not pro£1,000 a year, and from what I know pose to go into the details of the Bill of the Commission I believe that state- now. They were better reserved for ment is true, because the proceedings in discussion in Committee, but there were the office are of a very informal nature, one or two observations which it might and it is difficult to require that stamps not be deemed presumptuous in him to should be used for the purposes of make with regard to the general princirevenue. The result is that the only ples of bankruptcy law. There was no way in which the Charity Commission law in the world affecting civilized comcan be made to pay its expenses is by munities which was much older than the subjecting charities to an income tax. Law of Insolvency; and, therefore, in Now, I have found myself in considerable discussing this question, they had the difficulty on this point, because, although benefit of a more extended experience the House resolved that the Charity than it was possible to obtain on any Commission should pay its own expenses, other subject of commercial law. The yet the House was not aware that the income tax on charities; and I believe only way of doing so is by putting an that a Resolution was passed by this House on a former occasion, negativing such a tax. [Mr. GLADSTONE: There was no Resolution.] At all events, there was principles established were few in number, and of general application. Everyone must admit that the chief object to be secured when a man failed to pay his debts was to obtain as soon as possible an arrangement between him and his creditors. He spoke, of course, of S an honest debtor, leaving dishonest that the majority of creditor debtors to be dealt with by the criminal perfectly free to make any co code. In the case of an honest debtor pleased with the creditor. it was established by what might be law on the Continent, where called universal legislation that such an agree either to a composition arrangement was the first thing to be the creditor time, or do bot secured, and that it should be limited him a complete or only a limi simply by the will of the contracting from his debts, and leaving th parties. When talking of an arrange- a portion of his after-acquire ment of this nature they must remem- liable to pay the rest. When ber that it was impossible on any oc- principle was adopted, precau casion to get entire agreement between be taken to secure a genuine r large numbers of persons. Therefore creditors, by preventing persons the legislation of almost all countries creditors from voting in that had given a right to the majority of and also by preventing real cred creditors to bind the remainder. The voting in respect of a larger Roman law had formed the basis of the was due to them. One great legislation of almost the whole of the believed, why the Bankruptcy La civilized world, and only in a sense was failed to give satisfaction was t it true that our Common Law was not were in it no adequate means for based on the Roman law, for we had ing this. It was another defect i used the Roman law as the Turks used that the debtor himself was al the remains of the splendid temples of make the arrangement. The d antiquity. We had pulled out the stones drawn up by his solicitor and t and used them in constructing build- posed to the creditors. This ings which we called our own. On this reverse of the practice in foreig subject our laws began with the Roman tries, and anyone acquainted legislation more or less corrupted, and law of contracts could not be l adopted as something entirely new. The the enormous difference in the main object of bankruptcy legislation produced by the two systems. in almost every continental nation was important that the principle sho to bring the creditors to an arrange- adhered to that the creditors ment by enabling a majority to de- propose the arrangement to the cide; the requisite majority being, in and to secure the object of exclud most States, a majority in number and but genuine creditors he would h three-fourths in value. The smallest persons prove their debts in the majority required was in the State of way as in bankruptcy. Such wa New York, where two-thirds were re- practice in France and, so far quired. On this point English legisla- knew, in every other State of the tion had been far from uniform. The nent. Having ascertained who th old law did not enable creditors to make ditors were, the next step would arrangements, but it empowered them ascertain their wishes. At prese to give a creditor his discharge; and solicitor took up a case for the pet that power was limited to a majority of ing creditors; and sent round to the at least four-fifths in value. This amount creditors a letter authorizing hi of four-fifths was subsequently altered prove for them, and enclosing a p to three-fifths in value, and a provision to vote for the choice of assignees. was adopted giving power to the credi- creditors, to save themselves tro tors to stop commenced proceedings in signed both, and the result was that bankruptcy and to turn them into ar- assignee was chosen not by the credi rangements. That was then thought a generally, but by one, or perhaps terrible innovation, and therefore it was solicitors who had obtained the lar required that the assents should be nine-number of nominations. This could tenths in value. The amount was after- occur if there was a general sitting wards changed to six-sevenths, and creditors to discuss not only who was again to three-fourths, and he saw no be the assignee, but whether there w reason for the provision in the present any possibility of coming to an arran Bill altering the figure to five-sixths. ment with the debtor in order to av He thought it ought to be the guiding bankruptcy. Then, another danger principle of legislation on this subject be guarded against was the possibili of any creditors assenting to unfair ar- than that in which they might see a man rangements as regarded others, by being who had been bankrupt three or four paid in some way or other to give their times, a daring and unscrupulous specuassents. This practice had never been lator, riding in his carriage, while his made penal in this country, though in unfortunate creditors were ruined. It every foreign code it was a fraud which was sometimes said if a bankrupt were was criminally punishable. Not being to be always liable for his debts until aware that this country was entitled to they were discharged, he would not exconsider itself superior in morality to ert himself as it was for the interest of other nations, he did not think that on society he should-to acquire future prothis point there should be an exemption perty. But, looking to experience, that from the terrors of the eriminal law, objection was without foundation. The which alone were sufficient to prevent Roman legislation-the law of cessio bofraudulent practices of this nature. norum-contained in the Digest, did not Having secured these objects, he would allow the debtor to free his future-acgive the creditors the fullest power to quired property from his debts, but make arrangements before bankruptcy simply protected him from being cast proceedings commenced, or at any other into prison. That law had prevailed for time before they were finally closed. Their thirteen centuries over the whole civiarrangements should be altogether in-lized world; and under that law debtors dependent, if they thought fit, of the did exert themselves and acquired protransfer of property by the debtor, and perty. The decay of the Roman Empire of his freedom or non-freedom from lia- was followed by the rise of the great bility as regarded his future-acquired commercial cities of Italy, and at a later property. Now, without wishing to period of the North of Germany and speak disrespectfully of the framers of Holland; and in every case they adopted this Bill, he must say, looking at the the Roman law. And, as had been shown 75th clause, which was the only clause by Mr. Burge in his third volume on in the Bill relating to this point, it was Foreign Law, and by Professor Leone extremely imperfect. It seemed to be Levi, in his great work on Commercial confined to the disposition of property Law, that principle was carried out by and to liquidations similar to bankruptcy. Louis XIV. in France, and by other It ought to extend to stopping the bank- European States. When a debtor had ruptcy proceedings at any time the cre- made cessio bonorum, his creditors could ditors thought fit, a power possessed, no longer proceed against him for any with certain limitations, under the pre- debt incurred before the bankruptcy; sent law. Passing from that which was but the curators, or, as they were the first principle in bankruptcy called here assignees in bankruptcy, namely, that of arrangement, they came were entitled at any future time to to the case where, for reasons that oc- bring him before the commercial tricurred now and then, it was not possible bunal, and compel him to give an acto make any arrangement with creditors. count of his affairs; and if the state of They had here only two principles to his affairs warranted it, the tribunal look to first, to secure that the property made an order, by which he should pay of the debtor was fairly divided among a portion or the whole of his debts. his creditors; and, second, to protect the That law prevailed in every civilized. debtor in his endeavours to re-instate community except our own, and he himself in the community, and obtain could not conceive on what principle our future property with the view of satisfy-law formed an exception. Whenever he ing his creditors. He must respectfully dissent from the proposition now made to relieve the bankrupt's future-acquired property when he paid 108. in the pound. He thought the future-acquired property of the debtor should be liable until he had fully paid his debts. That appeared to him not only sound morality, but also prudent legislation. He could not conceive any state of society more discreditable or more distressing found that the English law differed in some point from what he called the universal law of other nations, he was tempted to believe that the difference had arisen from accident; and so he found in the present instance. The first statute of bankruptcy was the 34 & 35 of Henry VIII., c. 4, passed in 1542, which not only contained no discharge of the future-acquired property of the debtor, but the 6th section expressly enacted that if |