CIVIL SERVICE ESTIMATES. QUESTION. MR. NEVILLE-GRENVILLE said, he wished to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, When the Civil Service Estimates will be issued? MR. AYRTON said, in reply, that he hoped the Civil Service Estimates would be printed, and be in the hands of Members, within ten days or a fortnight from that date. OFFICIAL SALARIES.-QUESTION. MR. WHITE said, he would beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether he has any objection to directing that the Salaries and Expenses of the office of the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Class 2), Consuls Abroad, &c. (Class 5), with the Salaries and Pensions of the Diplomatic Service, hitherto paid out of the Consolidated Fund, with Cost of Buildings (Class 1) and proportion of Secret Service Money, and all ordinary or extraordinary items of expenditure, should be so arranged as to exhibit in one Estimate the total annual cost of our Diplomatic and Consular Services? MR. LAYARD: Sir, the subject of my hon. Friend's Question is one of considerable importance. Not only have many Royal and other interesting historical monuments in our cathedrals and churches been removed from their original places, injured, or suffered to fall into decay, but monuments of great national as well as archæological value have been irreparably injured and even wontonly destroyed. This state of things is not creditable to the country. In France and elsewhere measures have been taken by the Government to preserve and maintain such monuments, as forming part of the property of the nation. Since I have held the Office which I have now the honour to fill, my attention has been seriously directed to this matter. There are, as my hon. Friend well knows, great difficulties in dealing with it in this country, especially those connected with what might be considered as interference with private rights and property-for instance, as in the case of the destruction, only recently, of a highly curious and interesting ancient monument in Cornwall, an act of vandalism which, if what I have read in the newspapers be true, one would have scarcely MR. GLADSTONE, in reply, said, he thought possible in these days. After presumed the Question of his hon. Friend fully considering the subject, I have was not meant to relate to the Estimates thought it advisable to turn my attention, for the present year, which were so far in the first place, to Royal and other advanced that no change could well be historical sepulchral monuments, some made in them. As his hon. Friend was of which have been injured, removed, aware, it was impossible to give the opened, and otherwise interfered with various items of expenditure embraced even of late years. The first step is to in the Miscellaneous Estimates in a man- obtain a list of such monuments as it ner which would be perfectly clear and might be desirable to place under public satisfactory in every point of view. If protection. With this view I addressed all the subordinate charges connected a short time ago a letter to the Society with the several offices named were set of Antiquaries, requesting their assistforth, confusion rather than the contrary ance in preparing such a list. My rewould be the result. At the present quest has been met in the most cordial moment he could not reply in full to the spirit by the distinguished President of Question of his hon. Friend, which could the Society, Lord Stanhope, and by its be best answered when the Votes to members. They have taken steps which, which it referred came on for discussion. I trust, will enable me to obtain such a list as will permit me to submit to the of these monuments which may meet with House some proposal for the protection its approval, or, at any rate, to invite its views and opinions upon the subject. If I find it possible to effect the object I have in view with regard to sepulchral monuments in our cathedrals and churches, I would endeavour to ascertain whether some means might not be PRESERVATION OF ANCIENT MONU MENTS.-QUESTION. SIR HARRY VERNEY said, he wished to ask the First Commissioner of Works to consider, Whether measures can be adopted to place the ancient monuments now existing in this Country under the protection of some authority which other monuments of national and historical interests and importance. COMMUNICATION ON RAILWAYS. QUESTION. MR. PALMER said, he wished to ask the President of the Board of Trade, Whether the rope system which the Board of Trade has sanctioned for communicating in Railway trains between the passengers and the Company's servants in charge of the trains is by means of a rope carried outside the carriages, and whether the passengers will be obliged to reach out of the carriage window to use such rope; and, if so, why a rope on the outside of the carriages has been sanctioned in preference to a rope carried through the inside of the carriage; and, whether he will lay upon the Table the Papers relating to the sanction given by the Board of Trade to a rope system? the hon. Gentleman might like to see he could have access to by calling at the Board of Trade. ABYSSINIAN EXPEDITION.-QUESTION. VISCOUNT ENFIELD said, he would beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty, Whether the crews of the Hospital Steam and other Transports engaged in the late Abyssinian Expedition are not entitled to receive the donation Batta for their services; and, if not so entitled, whether he would state the grounds for such refusal? MR. CHILDERS said, in reply, that on the 15th of June, 1868, the Treasury informed the Admiralty that a six months' Batta donation would be granted to the troops and naval forces engaged in the Abyssinian Expedition. No authority, however, was given to give Batta to the merchant seamen. The charter parties under which ships were engaged as transports contained no stipulations as to the wages of their crews, which were paid by the shipowners, Government having nothing to do with them. CONSOLIDATION OF THE STAMP ACTS. MR. CRAWFORD said, he would beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether any steps have been taken at the Treasury for the Consolidation of the Stamp Acts? THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, that the Solicitor of the Board of Inland Revenue was now engaged in consolidating the Stamp Acts, and he hoped the work would be completed in time to legislate on the subject either at the end of this or at all events at the beginning of the next Session of Parliament. MR. BRIGHT said, in reply, that the system which had been sanctioned by the Board of Trade was the one in which the rope ran outside the carriage. The window of the carriage being open, the rope was just outside on the top, and it was almost as easy to lay hold of it as if it were inside, its position being at the same time very much more convenient. As the House had already been informed, the system had been adopted on the recommendation of a most influential committee of the intelligent managers of our most important railways, and the Board of Trade felt that it would be but fair to give a trial to a system which the managers believed would be sufficient, which they were all perfectly willing to adopt, and which he himself thought would be found to be all that would be necessary. The railways south of London which did not run carriages in connection with the northern lines were adopting-at least some of them, the South-Eastern being one an electric system, which had also been sanctioned by the Board of Trade; but wherever MR. NEWDEGATE said, he wished companies ran their carriages on lines to ask the Under Secretary for the Coloon which the rope system was sanctioned nies, When the Papers relating to then they would be requested to adopt O'Farrell, consisting of a copy of leaves the same system. As to Papers on the from O'Farrell's diary; a report of some subject he hoped the hon. Gentleman conversations between the Colonial Sewould not think it necessary to press for cretary and the late prisoner, several their production, as many scores of com-declarations in the nature of affidavits munications relating to something like in support of the genuineness of the 200 inventions had been sent to the Papers, and an explanatory minute by Board of Trade. Any Papers which Mr. Parkes, in his then capacity of FENIANISM IN AUSTRALIA, QUESTION. Colonial Secretary, which documents plaining of an individual grievance. had been presented to the Legislative The question he wanted to raise was a Assembly of Australia, and which Papers broad one, and one of great public inthe Under Secretary for the Colonial terest. That question was, whether in Department on the 19th of March stated the Civil Service they were to have he would lay upon the Table of that promotion by merit or promotion by House, will be in the hands of Members? favouritism; whether that admirable MR. MONSELL replied that if the Treasury Minute which he had just read hon. Member would move for the Papers was to be obeyed and enforced, or to be they would at once be laid on the table trampled upon and defied; whether, in of the House. short, the higher appointments in the MR. NEWDEGATE: Am I to under-Civil Service were to be looked upon as stand that the right hon. Gentleman withdraws his promise to present the Papers? the perquisites of the leading Statesmen of the day, to be given by them to their private friends and dependents, as a reward for services to themselves, or whether they were to be filled by the most competent men that could be found to take them, and wherever it was possible were to be given as rewards of long and faithful and efficient service in more sub MR. MONSELL: The hon. Member cannot, I think, have clearly understood my answer. The Papers are ready; and if he will move this evening or Monday for them, they will at once be laid on the table of the House. MR. NEWDEGATE: Am I to under-ordinate positions. That was the quesstand that the right hon. Gentleman declines to present the Papers on the part of the Government in accordance with his promise of the 19th of March? tion he wished to bring before the House. MR. MONSELL: Certainly. The Government have no desire to lay these Papers on the table, as they do not consider that any object would be gained by the adoption of that course. If, how-had, in his opinion, been so rudely set ever, the hon. Gentleman desires to see them, and will move for their production, they shall be laid on the table. MR. NEWDEGATE: I will defer any further allusion to the matter until the Motion for going into Committee of Supply. aside; but it happened that all the cir- perience, and that there was a public servant in every respect suited for it, and who had a peculiarly strong claim to receive it, but that he was thrown aside and the place given away to a gentleman who had no claim at all upon the public, but only on the late First Minister of the Crown personally, and who was absolutely without that technical knowledge and experience which in this case were necessary for the satisfactory discharge of the duties. He must now trouble the House with a statement of what those duties were. They were extremely multifarious, but he would only mention a few of them. In the first place, the Deputy Master had to see that the various operations of melting and coining were carried on with efficiency and without material loss to the public-a point of great importance and absolutely requiring long training. Again, he had to see that the money was properly coined and issued to the public with accuracy as regarded both weight and fineness. Again, as Comptroller he had to take charge of, and become responsible for, all the bullion brought into the Mint for coinage, and it rested with him to issue all moneys to the public. He had to calculate the value of the bullion, and see at all times that the public interest was taken care of. He had to compute the seignorage on the silver and bronze coinage and pay over the proceeds to the Consolidated Fund. He had to supervise the account for the Mint office, and generally to keep a check on expenditure. He had to take charge of the coined pieces reserved for the general trial of the pyx; he had to see that the dies were kept in safe custody, and when worn out destroyed, as a safeguard against a surreptitious use of them. And, further, whenever the Master of the Mint was absent, the Deputy had to fill his place, and ought, therefore, to have been familiar with the whole management of the business of that important Department. The House could hardly fail to agree with him that this, then, was peculiarly a case in which it would have been right to advance a trained officer to this place, unless, indeed, there were some grounds for doubting his abilities. So far from that, there was a gentleman in the Mint of great experience, of high character, to whose efficiency the strongest testimony was borne by Sir John Herschel and others, and who actually had waived his VOL. CXCV. [THIRD SERIES.] claim to another office on a previous occasion upon the understanding that when this one should become vacant it would probably be placed at his disposal. He referred to Mr. Robert Mushet, the senior officer in the Mint-office, who had been at the head of the melting department for seventeen years, and had for thirty-six years been in the service of the Government. In 1851, when the Mint was reformed, several of the officers were much injured in their interests by the alterations then effected, and among them Mr. Mushet; but it was intimated that, as some compensation for the loss of these prospects, their claims for advancement would be duly considered when vacancies should occur in the higher offices. Of course, he should not for a moment say if Mr. Mushet was in any way incompetent that then he ought to have been employed; but very strong testimony to his competence was borne by him who, of all men, was fittest to judge of it-by Sir John Herschel. Sir John Herschel wrote to Mr. Mushet in September, 1868, to say that he had been informed that Mr. Mushet's claims to succeed Mr. Barton as Deputy Master and Comptroller of the Mint had been approvingly submitted to the consideration of the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury by the present Master of the Mint; and Sir John Herschel added— "This being the case, it appears to me no more than due that I should supplement whatever testimony he may have borne to your merits, conduct, and qualifications grounded on his experience, by my own as to your uniform efficiency, exactness, and devotion to your duties in the very responsible office you have filled since 1851, during my tenure of the Mastership." And Sir John Herschel went on to say that, in addition, he considered that Mr. Mushet had a claim to promotion founded on the destruction by the reform of the Mint of his prospect of succeeding to a much more lucrative position than his present one. This, then, was undeniable, that the duties of the office were highly important, that they were of a peculiarly technical character, requiring thorough training and long experience in the Mint. It was equally undeniable that a thoroughly suitable man was there at hand, a man of great experience, a man who had very strong claims both on account of his acknowledged efficiency, his long service, and his acquiescence in the loss of still better prospects upon this understanding, that he was some C day to be rewarded with this appointment. He (Mr. Buxton) could not imagine that any case could be a clearer one for the advancement of the subordinate to the place which he had so well earned. Well, what was actually done? Mr. Barton, the late Deputy Master of the Mint, having died last September, application was immediately made, supported, as he said before, by the Master of the Mint and by the late Master Sir John Herschel, on behalf of Mr. Mushet. No reply, however, was received; and the place was kept unoccupied for three months until the very eve of the retirement of the late Government from Office, and it was then given to a young gentleman, against whom he had not a word to say, but who had never set his foot in the Mint, and had no claim but that of having performed private services to the late Prime Minister. It was strange that just before this was done the Treasury Minute was issued, which stated positively that "Promotion by merit is the established rule in the service, and to every young man who becomes the servant of the Crown in the Civil Service a way is opened to independence, and even emi nence." That Minute was intended to give a powerful stimulus to the Civil Service, by holding out definitely to the young men engaged in it that in future they might, by strenuous diligence, attain to positions of dignity; but the Minute would, of course, now be regarded as a simple mockery of those to whom it had been addressed. It was little less than an insult to use all these fine phrases to them when, on the very first occasion on which the rule could have been acted upon, it was treated with contempt by the very Government that had laid it down. Depend upon it a very few instances of that sort would be quite enough to damp the spirits, to sour the feelings, of the whole Civil Service. Nothing could do so much to invigorate the Civil Service as the hope amongst those engaged in it that they might in due time raise themselves by their diligence and efficiency to those higher posts that glittered above them. Nothing, on the other hand, could do so much to demoralize the Civil Service as the feeling that no matter how long, how faithful, how efficient their service may have been, yet at the last moment the prizes for which they had laboured might be snatched from them and thrown to some private connection of some great man, for whom a snug berth was wanted, He would only add his hope that in bringing this subject forward he should not have seemed to be guilty of any want of that respect which was so eminently due from every Member of this House to the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Buckinghamshire (Mr. Disraeli). He certainly had not been actuated in the smallest degree by any party feeling, or by any personal interest; but when these facts came under his notice he thought that it would be something like cowardice if he shrank from the task, however disagreeable it might be, of bringing the question under the consideration of the House. MR. DISRAELI: The hon. Member for East Surrey (Mr. Buxton), entertaining the views he has expressed, is quite justified in bringing this matter before the House, but I am bound to tell the hon. Member that his observations really are a series of misapprehensions. He has very properly noticed the Treasury Minute of last November, and I am the last person not to stand by that Minute, -for which, indeed I am responsible, and which I approve in every particular; but in referring to that Treasury Minute the hon. Member should have pointed out to the House what was its leading subject, and should have explained that the passage he has quoted is only an incidental passage, though it expresses a sentiment in the soundness of which I entirely agree, that a career should always be open to real merit in the Civil Service. But the hon. Gentleman seems to have made the mistake of concluding that a career for real merit is to be insured only by sanctioning the claims of routine. In my mind that is a great error, and such a course would be far from being in agreement with the sentiments and views which influenced the drawing up of the Minute of November. The first misapprehension of the hon. Member consisted in supposing that the individual who was appointed to the Deputy Mastership of the Mint was not a member of the Civil Service. He is, on the contrary, an eminent member of that body. He entered it in his boyhood, and during the period which has elapsed since has much distinguished himself. Therefore, all that groundwork of the hon. |