business went on by degrees, 2 or 3000l. per ann. and I am not an accountant by law. But could I have foreseen so long an employment, I would have been more exact; but I have them in loose papers.

Sir John Hotham. Remember the place you are to go to (Whitehall) and make no Order to seize, nor search for Books or Papers, but take such as he will deliver to you. He knows your mind, and what is for your purpose; and if he will not deliver them, you may take an Order with him.

Mr. Williams. Whitehall may be a sanctuary for these concealments, but no place is sacred against your search. I would not have that pass for doctrine.

Sir John Hotham. If it be your Order to search, I will go as far in obeying it, as any

man.

Mr. Swynfin. I would not till you have occasion for it. time, but let Hotham go.

use your power, Spend no farther

Sir John Hotham. If Fox desire to speak with any body, or go from us, (in this nice point, I desire to understand you fully, and I will serve you fully,) whether are we to permit it, or not?

Sir Stephen Fox. My Cash-keeper and Book-keeper are gone to the Exchange; and if I am not so ready in it, you will excuse me, and have no ill thought of me, for I protest I never knew of this before.

Ordered, "That sir John Hotham, sir Rob. Peyton, and sir John Holman do accompany sir Stephen Fox to Whiteball, and that he do bring his Ledger Book, Cash Book, and Journal, and his Receipts for Money by him paid, for Secret Service;' and he is enjoined not to go out of the company of the said members, before they return to the house; and that no member do depart the service of this house, until sir Stephen Fox and the other members do return."

Report of the Committee appointed to seize sir S. Fox's Papers.] Sir John Hotham, and the rest, return from Whitehall, and report, That according to Order, they attended Fox to Whitehall. They were not half a quarter of an hour there, but Fox called his servants to bring such Books as they had in their custody, and sent for other servants that had the rest. Some great books were brought into the room; but whilst he sent for the Acquittances, the Lord Chamberlain (the earl of Arlington) came in, and spoke to Fox. Fox said, These gentlemen are some members of the house, and I shall not speak without their hearing.' My Lord Chamberlain said, 'I take notice that you are employed to search for Books and Papers, but you shall not take any away out of Whitehall.' I replied, some it seems, do make friends of the unrighteous Mammon.' Your lordship has quick information of what we came about, for our house-doors were shut.' My Lord Chamberlain saw the mistake, and would have debated some things, but I said, 'I was not sent to argue this, or that, but to obey

my order.' (He had been so taught.) My Lord Chamberlain was very desirous to tell us why those Books were not to be taken out of Whitehall; but I said, let me have what your lordship would say in writing,and I will inform the house of it.' But what he said was, 'That be dared not consent that any Books should go out of Whitehall, without the king's orders, nor that we should inspect any Books, without the king's command.' I had forgot oue thing that my Lord Chamberlain said, viz. I would not do any thing that should look like the displeasure of the house of commons; but I believe if the house address the king, they may have their desire.

Several moved, "That Fox should tell the house, upon his memory, when, and what Monies he had paid to Members of the former parliament, and if the house find that he omits any thing wilfully, that they will take an Order with him."

Sir S. For. I hope the house will not lay this upon me, that no man could have imposed upon me. It is so easy a way to ask the king's leave for the Books, that I hope you will take that way. What you desire to know is 4 years ago, and I cannot charge my memory with it.

Mr. Sacheverell. I hope he can remember to acquaint the house, what he told the committee. He has named some gentlemen of the last parliament, whom he has paid Money

to.

Ordered, "That sir S. Fox do, upon his memory, name to the house such Members of the last parliament as be paid Money to, for Secret Service."

Mr. Sacheverell. I desire to know of him, during the time he paid Money for Secret Service,' whether he cannot remember a name? If he cannot, I can.

The Speaker. Who did you pay Money to, of the Menibers of the last Parliament, for Secret Service?'

Sir S. Fox. These are hard circumstances I am under, either to disobey the house, or to divulge a secret by the king's command. I can name so few persons, that it will give no satisfaction to the house. I named none but what the committee named to me, and my memory is not good enough to repeat it. It may be, the persons may have an action against me. Upon my memory I cannot tell who I paid Money to for Secret Service,' and who upon other accounts. I humbly pray, that I may not be put to answer.

Mr. Williams. They that will be ridden shall be ridden-You have been strangely used at Whitehall. Let him withdraw, and then you will consider what to do with him.

Sir Rob. Howard. The list of all the Members, is a way proposed to do your business. Will you not assist your own Order, by letting him have a list to help his memory? If it be so great a thing as you apprehend, let not Fox pick and chuse whom he will to accuse. Mr. Boscawen. For Fox to be the first sccuser seems hard. But let the clerk read the

Ordered, "That sir Rd. Wiseman and Mr. Knight be immediately sent for to attend this bouse."

Debate thereon.] Sir Tho. Clarges. I move, that persons who have received any Money the last parliament, may be incapable of any trust in the government, and refund what they bave bad.

Sir Fr. Winnington. I found several witnesses very willing to make discoveries, but in reality they were threatened. I move, that there may be some way, or method, to know the bottom of this; whether you will call witnesses to the bar, or to the committee. Apply your remedy, when you know the disease. I do say, that if any man takes Money to sell his country, I would use the utmost power of punishment, that parliaments may not be lost. Mr. Bennet. Here is good evidence against Mr. Bertie. If you have no farther account of this matter, proceed upon him. If you get the Book out of him, you have all. If not, make an example of him, and you will have

the rest.

Sir John Trevor. If these Papers be left in the clerk's hand, a superior power may command them from him; therefore let them be in the hands of the chairman.

Sir Fr. Winnington. I would not be used as sir Edmundbury Godfrey was, whilst I have such Papers about me, as I have reported. Really, I believe the Papers are of that nature, that they ought to be in the custody of the house, and let the Speaker keep them.

Mr. Garroway. Enter them upon your Books, and they will be as safe as all the rest of your transactions.

Sir Joseph Tredenham. I move that they may not be entered upon your Books, till gentlemen that are named have justified themselves. If you will enter upon their justification, I will now proceed to my own.

Mr. Boscawen. According to my observation, the Order of the house is, that immediately they be heard ; and, in justice, do not enter it into the Journal till they be heard.

Sir Tho. Meres. Your question is, Whether the Papers shall be entered; but if these gentlemen named think the entry will be detrimental to them, it is but reasonable that they should be heard.

Sir Fr. Winnington. There are very honourable persons named. Some say enter the Papers.' But it is one of the hardest things in the world for a man to have papers entered upon him; it is a kind of passing judgment. The Votes will be sent all England over. Suppose those gentlemen of honour and quality vindicate themselves, you will tear Book sure, and not suffer them to be your upon Record.

Lord Cavendish. It will be no hardship upon them to have the Papers entered, for if they justify themselves, their innocence will be

entered too.

Col. Titus. It is no crime at all to have money, nor pension, but to have it for an ill

use. Therefore let every member concerned be heard in his place. He may justify himself. Mr. Garroway. I am not against entering the Report. But before you give your judgment, hear your members in their place. This is parliamentary; and then they are to withdraw, and you judge whether you will acquit, or condemn them.

Sir John Talbot. I confess to you, I am afraid what I shall say always, but more now I am in confusion, and shall speak my thoughts very indigestedly. I beg I may speak more than once if I have occasion. This is a great crime of betraying a trust: though this day I am more unfortunate to be in suspicion. But I desire I may be distinguished when I know the integrity of my own heart. Yesterday this was mentioned, &c. and is got about the towe,, and my reputation is exposed to censure. Let every man lay his hand upon his heart. I say, with great assurance, that directly or indirectly I never took one shilling as a gift, or begging, from the time the king came in. I do disown any thing by way of Secret Service' to infoence my vote here. I will submit myself to the censure of the law, to be tried by that law. I will submit it to any judicial way of proceeding. Give me leave to open this matter to you. I desire to justify myself, and to live no longer than I can do it. Some gentlemen, besides those, have been mentioned, their number not great. When the act passed for the Excise to be made a Revenue, when the king came in, it was thought an advantage to the Revenue, and ease to the country, for gentlemen to manage the Excise. For that clause was put into the act, to impower the king to let it for three years, that such contracts might be good in law, and another shall not proceed, but such as is recommended at the quarter sessions, and he shall have the refusal, and not to be let under the rate he refused it at. When the rate was put, we had the refusal, and this was my case: I paid the rent. At last lord Clifford, when the Farm was just going out, made a private contract, without our knowledge, and disposed of all those Farms to four or five other persons, without our knowledge. I will not censure lord Clifford, but I will say this, that the king's Revenue never was kept up, till it was in that method again. One of the farmers told me, 'That the Treasurer made a contract to other persons, and let us go, and offered 10,000l. a year more than they were to give, and advanced it at 61. per cent, and no more, and so made the proposition better.? But he told us, the king was resolved, and wanted Money. (I think about this time the Triple League was broke.) I said to lord Clifford, That no man will turn out a tenant that pays his rent well: 1 hope the king will be no worse than other men.' Lord Clifford replied, The king intends not to use you ill. that have served him and his father well.' Upon this the king said, He would not put us upon hardships, but we should have some consideration for our Farm.' I appeal to sir Ste

phen Fox, whether I am not in the list of names of those to whom the king intended to give compensation for their Farms taken out of their hands; and I appeal to him, whether I had not the Pension under that consideration. But had it been a gift, or grant, and not under any consideration whatsoever, the king has employed me in several trusts; if I have changed iny principles, or been guilty of the practices of any immorality, I beg that consideration, not to be exposed to that cruelty, not to be exposed to public censure.

Col. Whitley. I am one under that unfortunate list of Pensions. I was one of those in the recommendation of the country, for the farming the Excise. I had a covenant of 10,000l. from Dashwood not to supplant me. We fell into suit, and at last into an award, and till such time I never touched a penny of the money. I had in all 9001, which I received at several times. This is the true state of the case. If I did betray my country, I am not only fit to be turned out of the house, but out of the world. I have had money a long time due to me, and can get none of it. Be pleased to examine what relates to me as publickly as you please.

Sir Stephen For. I did distinguish carefully, of the lists of persons lately concerned in farming, &c. and in it, several members had pensions; and some had that were not members. Talbot was careful in expressing the reason in the receipt of the money. He would not receive it till he had it entire, and then received it, as a person lately concerned in the Excise.

Sir Philip Howard. If my case he distinct from others, I hope I shall be so judged. I am one of those to be considered under the head of Farmers of the Excise;' and I desire I may come under the head of those who came in upon a valuable consideration.

Mr. Harbord. This may well admit of a distinction, but not till you have farther heard the matter. If you find that the king's bounty went to one sort of parliament-men, and not to another, you may guess by that, for I could in the last parliament have told you how the question would go. If a pensioner went not well, slash he was put out of his pension.

Sir Joseph Tredenham. A Pension to betray one's country is a detestable thing to receive by any body, and I do utterly deny to have received any. I had the honour of the favour of my prince, and I had his favour when I made application for it. Avarice was never my humour. A gentleman having a small government called Cheade Castle, which lay nearer me, upon a reversionary patent, I was put upon it to get him to resign his go

vernment.

Sir Fr. Winnington. As for what Tredenham says of the nature of the Secret Committee, he need not reflect on the secret committee, but that it borders upon secret service,' I have heard that Tredenham has reported, That because he defended the duke of Lauderdale, I would be revenged of him.' As for this Castle, &c. when I was Solicitor General I passed a warrant, &c. but I appeal to him whether he told me of the 500/, because be has given some sparring blows towards me, I desire he may name the person.

Sir Joseph Tredenham. I desire that grace for my passion which I must allow for others. This putting me in the van of the Report of these gentlemen, does look like something of pointing at me. I have had considerable places offered mc, but I would not have gentlemen turned out for me. As for this of Lauderdale, it is but a hearsay. Sir Fr. Winnington. He dwindles this of Lauderdale to a flying report. There are thirty before him in the list, but had he been last you would have found him out.

Mr. Harbord. This is a hardship, that a private person should use one so, that has done you service. If Tredenham got a castle one way, Winnington lost one of the best places in England, (Solicitor General,) for doing his duty here, and I hope God will reward him.

Sir Henry Capel. It is no wonder, if the Committee of Secrecy go new ways to work, (as Tredenham alleged,) you must consider that never such new things were done before. Winnington has most dexterously and prudently made enquiry into this matter of the Pensioners, and it becomes you to be very severe to any man that makes such reflections. [Many called Tredenham to the Bar.]

Sir Tho. Clarges. What need you call for proof? Tredenham has confessed That he had 500l. to enable him to buy a Castle.' He called to Winnington, Prove it, prove it,' very peremptorily, and you ought to censure him.

Sir Joseph Tredenham. I beg pardon for being too ready to give credit to a report, but when I consider the smallness of this matter of the Castle, which I did buy only for convenience of the situation near my estate, I submit to your censure, and beg your pardon. Pray consider how difficult it is for me to speak, I have had no time to prepare myself.

Sir Richard Wiseman at the bar. The Speaker. The house is informed that you have disposed of several Pensions, of four times 400l. per ann. From whom did you receive the Money, and to whom did you pay it, and for what use?

nary means.