13 JOURNAL of the Proceedings and Debates in the POLITICAL CLUB, continued from the Appendix 1742. Continuation of the debate upon the motion for inquiring into the conduct of Robert Earl of Orford. The peech of C. Salluftius Crifpus. Mr Prefident, WH 7Hatever were the prevailing objeations, or may be thought to have been the prevailing objections against the former motion, by fome Gentlemen, that of its being too extenfive, either as to time or matter, was far from being the moft prevailing with me. The objection which prevailed moft with me against the laft, and will equally prevail against this, was, that I think we have no caufe for an inquiry, and, if we had, this is not a proper time for it. The fufpicions that are entertained, and the clamours that are made without doors, are neither the fufpicions nor the clamours of fenfible and discerning men, nor of men of fortune and circumftances in our country, unless it be fuch as cover their difaffection to the Royal family under the cloak of being difcontented with the measures pursued by the adminitration. They are the fufpicions and | clamours either of Jacobites and republicans, or of the mere mob; and I hope I all never fee the measures or proceedings of this house directed by either of these forts of men. If you were to be directed by Jacobites and republicans, you would not only inquire, but hang up every man that dared ferve the Royal family now upen our throne, that you might thereby at lat get the Royal family itself banished out of the kingdom; and if you were to be directed by the mob, you would, for their diverfion, and for no other cause, send fome minifter or other every year to Tybum or Tower-hill. Such an execution would be a holy-day to all the children, prentices and journeymen about London; and if they are diverted, they trouble their heads very little at whofe expence, or about the juftice of the sentence. The fufpicions or the murmurs without doors are never to be a rule for our proceed ing, unless we are fully convinced, that there is fome very good ground for those fufpicions and murmurs; and this I think Cannot with reafon be faid by any Gentleman at present. The only ground of complaint which the Noble Lord was pleased to hint at, was that of applying the publick money, and all the favours of the crown, towards gaining a corrupt influence at elections and in parliament. Sir, with regard to the favours of the crown, I do not fee how any minifter can be made to anfwer for their difpofal, because they are directly difpofed of by the King himself, who very often difpofes of them without fo much as afking the advice of the minifter whose proper department they belonged to; and therefore, if any fault could be fuppofed to have been committed in this respect, it would be a charge against the King himfelf, which I hope will be allowed to be a fort of charge that cannot be brought by this houfe, or by either house of parliament. Perhaps those favours have been lately granted generally to thofe, or the friends of thofe that approved his Majefty's measures in parliament. Sir, it is very natural they should be fo difpofed of: they have always been so disposed of. His Majesty, I am very fure, never proposes, much lefs purfues any measure but what he thinks right; therefore he muft fuppofe thofe Gentlemen to be the best friends to their country, who approve of and fupport his meafures in parliament: and I hope it will not be imputed to him, or to any of his minifters as a crime, to bestow the favours of the crown upon those they think the best friends to their country. This I hope will answer for those favours that are beftowed by the crown upon members of parliament; and, if they have any favours in their gift, or can obtain any favours from the crown for other perfons, they are in gratitude obliged to difpofe of those favours among thofe who fupported their interest at their election. This has always been the practice, it always will, it always ought to be the practice; because, as I have faid, it is what Gentlemen are in gratitude bound to do; and to be grateful, will never, I hope, be deemed criminal. If this, Sir, is to be called a corrupt inAuence, fluence, it is impoffible for us to be without it, as long as the crown has any favours to bestow. It is what every Gentleman practises, and ought to practise in his private capacity, as well as his publick. If he has any favours to bestow, if he can procure any favours, as a good citizen, he ought to bestow them upon, or procure them for those that, in his opinion, deferve beft of their country; and, if he purfues what he thinks the intereft of his country, he must think, those men deserve beft of their country, who approve of the meafures he approves of, and fupport him in the purfuit of them. This may indeed be a corrupt influence, with regard to fome of those upon whom the favours are beftowed. They may perhaps pretend to approve of, and may fupport their patron in the pursuit of measures which they do not in their hearts approve of: but, with regard to him, it is no corrupt influence, as long as he purfues those measures which he thinks will contribute moft to the fecurity and happiness of his country. In the perfon who beftows, the difpofal of favours can never be supposed to be with a defign to procure a corrupt influence; nor can it be imputed to him as a crime, unless he purfues fuch measures as he knows to be deftructive to his country: and as this is a crime in the mind only, we can never difcover it by an inquiry, nor can it be juftly punished by any fublunary power; it can be neither detected nor punished by any thing but the hand of God. With regard to the difpofal of publick money, it is easier indeed to discover a criminal practice. If that has been difpofed of towards bribing votes, either in parliament or at elections, and without a pretence of any real and honeft fervice performed to the publick, it may be detected, and ought to be punished. But there are two very strong reafons for making us believe, that no fuch practice has been lately made ufe of. Such practices, as all criminal practices are, are generally carried on in a hidden manner; but to iffue money from the treasury for this purpofe, I think impoffible to be done in a hidden manner. There are so many Commiffioners, and fo many Clerks attending that board, that such a practice could not long escape a discovery; and befides, there mu be fo many agents employed to carry the money to the country, and to distribute in a proper manner, that no man of com mon fense would truft to the fecret's bein kept. Some one of those to whom it mu be communicated, would certainly, eithe out of regard to his country, or in expecta tion of a reward, or from fome disappoint ment, become an informer, and a direct e vidence against the high criminal. As no fuch thing has happened; as the Nobl Lord does not fo much as pretend that h has any fuch information or evidence, muft fuppofe, that no such crime has been lately committed. Even if there were a general rumour among men of fenfe and difcretion without doors, that fuch a crime had been frequently committed, I fhould look upon it as a mere groundless rumour unlefs fome Gentleman of character could fay, he had direct evidence to produce. Another argument, Sir, for my thinking the committing of this crime impoffi ble, is the method introduced by the revo lution, of appropriating all parliamentary grants, and the regular accounts of the dif pofal of all publick monies that have been of late years laid annually before parliament. These grants are generally fo far from having any excefs or furplus, that they are often infufficient for answering the services to which they are appropriated by parliament; and if ever any furplus has arifen, it has always been accounted for, and has been applied by the next fucceeding feffion to the fervice of the enfuing year. From hence I think it impoffi ble to fuppofe, that any one of the Commiffioners of the Treafury, or all of them together, if they were confederates in the crime, could have the command of any publick money, which they might ap ply towards carrying on the practice com plained of. I fay, Sir, they could have the command of no publick money which they could apply to this purpose, unless they took it from the civil lift revenue; and, if we confider the many checks the difpofal of that revenue is liable to, and the great care his Majefty takes of that part of it which is drawn out by special warrant,we cannot fuppofe, that they could apply any part of that revenue to the car rying rying on of fuch a practice, especially fuch that none of them would treat with us, large fums as would be neceffary for car- or enter into any concert or negotiation trying it on with effect, without fuppofing, with our fovereign. which God forbid any one should suppose, that his Majesty himself was a focius criminis! For these reasons, Sir, I cannot fuppofe we have the leaft caufe or reafon for fetting up fuch an inquiry as is propofed by this motion: and, with all due regard to this houfe, I muft fay, that if an inquiry were fet up, as I hope there never will, without any apparent caufe whatever, I fhould very much fufpect, that it proceeded from malice and refentment; in which cafe I fhould very little expect, that the perfon whole conduct was by fuch means to be inquired into, fhould meet with any candour or fair treatment. If I judge more favourably of the cause and character of the Noble Lord whose conduct is now fo particularly propofed to be inquired into, than other Gentlemen do, I hope the connexion I have with him, the natural duty lowe him, will plead my excufe. If I thought his character fuffered among the valuable and difcerning part of mankind, and fuch as are true friends to our happy conftitution, and the Royal family now upon our throne, as I am fully convinced of his innocence, the fame duty that now prompts me to be the first to oppose an inquiry into his conduct, would in that cafe prompt me to be the first to propofe it, as on as a proper time prefented for that parpole, which I cannot think the prefent is. When the nation, Sir, is in fo much danger; when our best and most natural ally upon the continent is in the moft imminent danger of being deftroyed, or fo much reduced as never for the future to be able to do us any service; when we ought to employ all our time in confulting and taking proper measures for extricating ourselves and our allies from the danger that now threatens all of us, would it be proper, would it be prudent for us to take up our time with inquiring into the little frauds that may have been committed in the management of our publick revenue, fuppofing we were certain that fome fuch had been committed? It would give the courts abroad fuch a mean opinion of our prudence, or fuch a fufpicion of ur zeal for the prefent relief of Europe, For this reafon, Sir, if the cafe were such as I have juft mentioned; if from thence I thought myself bound in duty and affection to the beft of parents, as well as out of regard to myself, to promote an inquiry, in order to vindicate a character in which I glory, and from which I hope to reap honour as long as I live, I should at the prefent crifis, and till I faw my country out of danger, fufpend my aiming at that fatisfaction, not only for the reafon I have mentioned with regard to our character at foreign courts, but because an inquiry into any minifter's conduct always has, and always will increase the violence of those animofities which must reign amongst us as long as we are a free people; for let a minifter be never fo innocent, let the inquiry be never fo ftrict and impartial, let his juftification be as clear as the fun, there will remain fome cloudy minds where no truth can penetrate, and the animofity of fuch will receive fresh vigour from their difappointment. On the other hand, let a minifter be never fo guilty, let his fentence be never fo moderate, there will be fome, perhaps many, whose friendship will obftruct the rays of truth: they will think he has met with injuftice, and their revenge will add violence to their animofity. Thus the nation will be drawn up in two oppofite parties; and the difpute will be carried on with more violent animofities, than any of our present divifions. Is this a proper time to create fuch a difpute or divifion? Our enemies abroad would certainly offer affiftance to the offended party at home, and their disappointment or revenge might fmother thofe yearnings which would otherwife arife in favour of the peace and fafety of their country. Thus, Sir, as I think we have at prefent no caufe, and as I think this would be a very improper time for fetting up any inquiry into the late conduct of our publick affairs; as these were the two chief arguments that prevailed with me to be againft the laft motion for an inquiry, and as both thefe militate as ftrongly against the inquiry now propofed, I must give my negative to the Noble Lord's motion. The The fpeech of P. Decius Mus. Mr Prefident, young I Believe, Sir, every man prefent in this Gentleman who firft opposed this motion, for giving his negative to the queftion. I believe, no one expects his approbation to fuch a queftion; because, I am convinced, he thinks, that the Noble Lord whofe conduct is now proposed to be inquired into, was never guilty of any crime, nor fufpected to be fo by any Gentleman of fortune and character in the kingdom. He may perhaps have now and then heard a huzza upon an unlucky occafion among the mob in the streets; but furely no Gentleman would be fo impolite, except in this place, where we are in honour obliged to fpeak our minds freely, as to infinuate to the fon the leaft fufpicion that his father had plundered his country, mifapplied the publick money, and formed a scheme for overturning the conftitution. I fhould not have been fo perfonal, Sir, if I had not thought it abfolutely neceffary to fay what was proper for preventing the Hon. Gent.'s ftrong affertions from having any weight in this house. He may believe what he afferts to be true; I am perfuaded he does but he cannot be fuppofed to know the fact, therefore his affertion can have no authority; and I believe there are many Gentlemen in this houfe who are in the fame circumstances with him. But, Sir, I would have that Gentleman, and every other Gentleman, to take care what they fay, when they infinuate, that no Gentleman of fenfe and fortune, unless he be a Jacobite or republican, has the leaft fufpicion of the Noble Lord's conduct now under our confideration. Have not they upon a former occafion heard many Gentlemen in this houfe, not only declare their having fuch fufpicions, but give, what I thought, inconteftable reafons for fhewing that thofe fufpicions are well grounded. I believe none of thofe Gentlemen will be directly charged with being a man of no fortune or character, or with being a Jacobite or republican; and they have upon all occafions fhewn themselves to be men of as good fenfe as those who affert the contrary It would be unlucky for his Majefty and his fami ly, as well as for our present happy co stitution, if all were Jacobites or repub cans that fufpect our late minifter's co them, perhaps a majority, both in his a my and among his placemen; who, th they diffemble their fentiments at prefer would certainly declare themselves ope ly, and take measures accordingly, up the firft favourable opportunity. Tho who have a true regard for the fecuri of his Majefty's government, will be e tremely cautious of propagating fuch a cufations. It was the custom of K. Cha les I.'s court, in the beginning of his reig to tax all those who opposed their arbitra ry measures with being Puritans. Wha was the confequence? Moft of those me actually became fo, and thereby made th Puritans fuch a powerful party in th kingdom, as at last pulled down that un fortunate King from the throne he fate or and, de fond en comble, overturned th conftitution of our government. As there are certainly great complain without doors, of mifapplication and co ruption; as this fact is proved by the te ftimony of many Gentlemen in this house who have no places, penfions or prefer ments to bestow, and confequently ar better judges than thofe that have: if were a placeman, and a friend to our lat minifter, as all I think of his friends are tho', from the complaifance, or perhap diffimulation of those I converfed with, had never heard of there being any fuc complaints without doors; yet, from the teftimony of fo many Gentlemen who ar the beft judges of the people's fentiments I fhould certainly believe the fact, and, a a friend to the minifter, or to my country fhould join in this motion, in order to vin dicate my friend if innocent, or expof him to the juftice of the nation if guilty That all the titles, honours, penfions places and other favours of the crown have for twenty years past been difpofec of to none but fuch as voted in parlia ment, or at elections, according to the di rection of the minifter; that, within these ten years, feveral persons of high rank and great merit have been difmiffed from all the offices they held at the pleasure of the crown, for no other known or affignable rea |