PARLIAMENT. [24.]

On the 15th of December the Earl of Shelburne, who had on the 9th moved for, and obtained an order for the Lords to be funmoned for that day, opened his motives for that fummons, in a speech of near two hours; of which we can give but the fubftance of a part.

His Lordship declared, he had no intention to make personal reflections or accufations; that he meant to proceed on general grounds, and upon conftitutional principles. Neither did he mean any attack upon the prerogative of the prince on the contrary, he declared, that if he was minifter, he would reftore the royal prerogative, and enforce it; for it is a found part of the conftitution, as effential for the prefervation of the whole as the rights of the fubject: but it had been undermined, obfcured, reduced, and made to give way to minifterial influence, which had established an unconstitutional immense power on the violation of prerogative. This influence, he faid, must be reftrained, or crushed, to fave this country. And how did it a rife? From the minifter at the head of the treasury having it in his power to expend millions of the public money, without œconomy, without account; and to gratify avarice, or promote corruption, by the bribes of lucrative employments, contracts, and other jobbs. The greateft opportunities for thus draining the purfes of the nation, to ferve the power and emoluments of the minifter, be faid, were given in the annual article of extraordinaries for fundry fervices in time of war; and it was to this fubject he meant to fix the attention of the House, and to call upon the Noble Lords to affert the dignity of parliament, by looking into the expenditure of the public money. There was, he obferved, a fhameful diffipation of the public money in the amazing increase of the army-extraordinaries. During K. William's wars, he found, that the fums generally amounted on an average estimate to about 100,000l.; in Q. Anne's to about 200,000l.; in George II.'s, in fome instances, to near 500,000l.; in 1775, to 800,000l. which was paid in 1776; in 1766, and paid in 1777, to upwards 2,000,000 l.; in 1777, and paid in 1778, to upwards 3,000,000l.; in 1778, and paid in 1779, to upwards 4,000,000l.: the whole amounting to upwards of

-

8,000,000 1. for which no account was given. His Lordfhip also obferved, that a custom had been introduced, of fending remittances for contingent neceffities, and unexplained occafions, to America; and the fums expended on this account, were nearly as follow: in 1775, 200,cco 1.; in 1776, 300,000l.; in 1777, 600,000l.; in 1778, 1,000,000l.; and in 1779, 1,500,000l.: amounting to upwards of 3,000,000 1.

His Lordfhip alfo remarked, that another fource of diffipation arofe from the recent ufage which had lately diftinguished the governors in the different forts and provinces of the empire, in the demand for occafional remittances from government: for, in 1759, the fums granted towards this purpose did not collectively exceed 800 l.; and in 1779, which was no very great interval, they had arifen to the enormous increase of 98,000 l.; of which, for Grenada, 20,000l.; for St Vincent's, 20,000 l.; for Dominica, 20,000l.: and all these places were now loft, abandoned, or furrendered after a weak and pufillanimous resistance.—His whole defign, his Lordfhip faid, he would include in two propofitions: one as a refolution to be immediately determined upon; the other, to lie upon the table, and to be taken up after the Christmas recefs, when members fhould have had time to deliberate on its importance.- The two motions are thefe.

1. "Moved to refolve, That the alarming addition annually making to the prefent enormous national debt, under the head of Extraordinaries incurred in the different fervices, requires immediate check and controul;—the increasing the public expence beyond the grants of parliament being at all times an invasion of the fundamental rights of parliament, and the utmoft economy being indifpenfably neceffary in the prefent reduced and deplorable flate of the landed and mercantile interest of G. Britain and Ireland."

2. "Ordered, That the Lords be fummoned for Tuefday the 8th of February next, to take into confideration a motion, That a committee be appointed, confifting of members of both Houfes, poffeffing neither employment nor penfion, to examine without delay into the public expenditure, and the mode of accounting for the fame; more particularly into the man

Ber

to fow jealoufy and difguft between the two Houses.

The Lords Effingham, Manchefter, Coventry, Richmond, Suffolk, and Graf ton, fpoke in fupport of the motion; and the Lord Chancellor and the Earl Bathurst spoke in oppofition to it.

The Duke of Richmond faid, the extraordinaries of the governor of Jerfey (Gen Conway) amounted to only 301.; yet this active commander was not employed in a more active station, because, Lord North faid, it could not be done without removing Lord Amherst.

The Lord Chancellor faid, if a confidence were not placed in commanders of the army in cafes of exigency, which it was not in the power of parliament to forefee, no war could be carried on.The Duke of Richmond replied, it was the extent, the abuse of the power, not the exercife of it, that was to be the fubject of inquiry; and the motion convey ed no cenfure, it only called for neceffary inquiry.

Earl Bathurft faid, As to the rumcontract, he was forry it had been made an article of the army extraordinaries; it was begun in America, not by minifters at home. With refpect to governors drawing bills of exchange on the treafury, it had been permitted ever fince the year 1764, by different administrations; and to his knowledge, the Governor of St Vincent's, Mr Morris, the perfon mentioned, had been recalled the moment it was known he had drawn, contrary to order, upon the treafury, and his bills not paid. Did this fhew negligence or extravagance in the firft lord of the treafury?

Úpon a divifion, the numbers were, Contents 37, proxies 4, in all 41; Not contents 60, proxies 21, in all 81.

On the 8th of February Lord Shelburne explained his intentions, with refpect to his fecond motion. He propo. fed a small alteration, by leaving out the concluding part, refpecting the carrying on the war against the Houfe of Bourbon, and ending the motion thus, "that the fame may be applied to the public exigencies of the ftate."-Such, his Lordfhip faid, was the ftate of affairs, that the national debt was approaching to 200,000,000 of money; and the landed intereft, as well as the commercial, was in fo impoverished a condition, that even if a peace was now to be concluded, we were unable to fupport the immenfity of

the annual intereft. In fuch a fituation, nothing but œconomy could fave us, and a total change of that fsystem which had been purfued by the prefent administration. He faid, that much had been expected' from the East Indies towards leffening the public debt; but minifters bad contrived to prostitute the interefts of their country to the intereft of patronage, and had converted this into private advantage, to the detriment of the proprietors, the decay of the trade, and the difappointment of the public. He said, he did not intend, by the prefent plan, to take up any particular confideration which could be provided for by a fingle act. Such, for inftance, was the civil lift. The 100,000l. a-year lately added to the civil lift could be refumed by afpecial act of parliament; and an ingenious gentleman of the other House intended to introduce a plan for refuming and refcinding all exuberant and unneceffary grants and places. The plan that he propofed was not without precedent. In the year 1702, a commiffion of accounts was established, and continued for a confiderable time. A commiffion differed from a committee in nothing but the name. His intention was, in the ift place, To reduce, as far as poffible, the public expenditure to estimate; and where, from the nature of the fervice, this could not be done, to hold the officer who fhould exceed the grant in the ftricteft refponfibility: 2dly, To open all contracts: 3dly, To abolish all thofe needlefs offices through which the public revenue paffed without check, but with much expence, before it came to its final application; and that, instead of this, it fhould be lodged directly in the Bank of England: And, 4thly, To refume all unmerited grants. On all thefe objects his Lordship was particular. He said, that this was his plan. He did not, however, with that their Lordships, in taking it up, fhould reject it wholly because it might be partly wrong. He was it hopes that they would all connect their ideas on the fubject, and, in the prefent moment of diffatisfaction, fufpicion, and alarm, that a plan would be formed and adopted to answer the neceffities of the time, and fatisfy the wishes of the people. If this was accomplished, and independence, in confequence thereof, was restored to parliament, he took God to witnefs, that he had no other purpose to serve; and that he would then, in the consciousness that

his own and the national property was safe, retire to his eftate, and keep as far as he could from the vortex of diffipation, vice, and corruption. His Lordship concluded with the motion above [70.] inserted, with the alteration just mentioned.

The Earl of Coventry feconded the motion.

The Earl of Carlisle and Lord Fauconberg, opposed the idea of excluding placemen and penfioners from the committee.

Viscount Stormont made many objections to the form of the remedy propofed for the redress of the evil. The House of Lords could not appoint a committee of both Houfes. They had no power over the other Houfe, and the confequence of this refolution might be to create a quarrel between them. The exclufion of any description of men, was unjuft, as well as nugatory; unjuft, becaufe, however men might differ on difputed points, they were always fuppofed to have the fame object in view, the public good; and nugatory, because, though excluded from the committee, they would decide on the report. The powers given to the committee were too large; they were unlimited, inquifitorial, and dictatorial. It was propofed, that thofe gentlemen who, from cele brated ancestry, or perfonal merit, had become liable through the gratitude of their country, or the munificence of their prince, to the letter of this plan of reformation, fhould be exempted from the effects of it, and be left in the undisturbed poffeffion of their past advan tages. There was great liberality in that idea; but how was a true determination to be formed, whether a man deferved his penfion or no? Under the influence of different political principles men form different judgements; and the fame object, when viewed through diffimilar mediums, appears praife-worthy or cenfurable. Suppofe, for inftance, Lords Bolingbroke and Shaftesbury had been made umpires in the time of Sir Robert Walpole, to determine on the character and merits of that minifter, how should they have agreed as to his actual worth? One would have feen him with predilection, with the eye of friendship and confirmed partiality, and his judgement would have favoured of fuch a bias: The other would have viewed him through the mift of prejudice and perfonal fpleen, and would VOL. XLII.

have deemed him unworthy of every species of praise or honour.

The Duke of Grafton ftrenuously exhorted the House to adopt the motion, as one of the most neceffary, and the moft promifing to produce good, that had ever been offered to their Lordfhips confideration. He replied to Lord Stormont's objection on the point of difficulty of putting the motion in practice, declaring that there would not be any; that the first step would be a conference between the two Houfes, and then the matter would proceed with eafe and regularity. Before he fat down, he took notice of an allufion of Lord Stormont, which, he faid, he conceived to be aimed at a part of his income, and that of another Noble Duke: That the grants in question were long fince made; that the benefit of them defcended to the Noble Duke, his friend, and to him, as a part of their patrimonial estates; that they were secured to them by acts of parliament, on the faith of which his was fettled on his children. If, however, in a general plan of reformation, it should be thought neceffary to take that part of his eftate from him, he would rather have his children to struggle for a provifion, and should feel himself more happy in the recollection of having freed his country, than sorry in having lost his patrimony; he begged, therefore, that the Noble Lords would not think he, or the Noble Duke near him, were to be deterred from supporting a motion, founded on public good, by motives of perfonal interest.

Lord Temple fupported the motion, and declared his readiness to refign his tellership of the exchequer, though he held it as a high honour, being the price of his father's fervices. He faid, he would not be the dupe of miniftry, and be made a fool of by them, fo as to refign it fingly.

The Marquis of Carmarthen explained his motives for refigning his place of Chamberlain to the Queen. He approved, he faid, of the late county-meetings; and having received a mandate, to abfent himself from them, a meafuré which had been univerfal, he could not think of keeping a place, honourable as it was, in the household of his Majesty, while he agreed to a measure obnoxious to government. He was pointsy fevere on Lord Sandwich, and said, that he facrificed the glory, and perhaps the

K

fafety,

fafety, of the country, to his dirty, ignominious jobbing, and borough-traffic; that he drove the ableft officers from the fervice; and that while he continued in office, neither the genius, the zeal, nor the abilities of his colleagues, would be able to effect the salvation of this country. He faid, that he had that very day received a letter, calling back his letter of Lord-Lieutenancy. If this was done in revenge, he said he laughed at the folly; he felt the infult as he ought, while he reprobated the injustice.

Lord Chesterfield, in very vehement terms, condemned the county-meetings, as unconftitutional, lawless, and tending to debafe the dignity of parliament, if not to promote anarchy and confusion in the country.

Lord Sandwich replied to an affertion of the Marquis, That his continuance at the head of the Admiralty was the cause of all our best commanders refufing to act. This affertion his Lordship faid was groundless. The beft men had not been driven from the navy; they were now employed, and were an honour to their profeffion. His Lordfhip called upon any Noble Lord to mention the name of the commander who faid he would not act while the prefent Firft Lord of the Admiralty prefided; for certain he was, that no fuch expreffion had ever fallen from any officer. His Lordfhip faid, he had fomething alfo to offer against the motion before the Houfe: It was an improper one, because it carried on the face of it an impoffibility; a difgraceful one, because it tended to bring down the dignity of the Upper Houfe to a mean condefcenfion of begging from the Lower Houfe; and it was highly offenfive to the honour of many Noble Peers, because it excluded all thofe in whom his Majefty put confidence, from being of the committee intended. His Lordmhip then adverted to our fucceffes, which, he faid, fome members in oppofition meant to leffen; but they were many, and very confiderable; for it was a fact, that the French had not now a flag in India, their trade was ruined, and we were in the fole poffeffion of the one, and had every benefit from the other. He added, that the Newfound land fishery was alfo now ours. We had gained fome fignal advantages over the Spaniards; and he hoped foon to give the public an account, that Gibraltar was relieved, and the junction of the

Bourbon fleet at an end; for the Spanifh fhips of war had failed from Breft, and were now in Cadiz. His Lordship called the meeting in York factious; and averred it to be the laboured work of oppofition, the members of which went about to every meeting; and even where they had no property, figned petitions to parliament. This, his Lordship faid, was not taking the fenfe of the people; it was blinding the public with nominal affociations, the fame names being to be found among the fignatures of almost every addrefs. Such meetings were a tyranny, a dangerous tyranny; for it was one branch dictating arbitrarily to all the reft.

The Marquis of Rockingham defended the motion, and lamented the ruin that was falling on this country. He then adverted to the York meeting, and faid, there were noblemen and gentlemen at one time in the public room there, whofe real properties amounted to 800,000 1. annually.

Lord Hillsborough animadverted upon the conduct of oppofition, and said they had pushed matters to the brink of rebellion, which nothing but the steadiness of parliament could now prevent. Committees of correfpondence were big with danger, -for committees of fafety would foon follow. It was the latter that kindled the flame in America, and we ought to be warned by their example. No man, his Lordship declared, was more ready to accede to any propofition for the benefit of the kingdom; but he could never fubfcribe to abfurdities, impoffibilities, and the groffeft indignity to that House, however ftrenuous fome Lords might be to effect fuch a purpose.

The Duke of Richmond defired, that the motion might be amended, by leaving out the words, "both Houfes of Parliament," and appointing a committee of their own House only and this was agreed to.

The Earl of Mansfield agreed to every thing that had been faid in favour of fome plan of economy; but he faid there were eafy, plain remedies. If any man commit a fraud in the difpofal of the public money, he might be called to account for it by law. He remembered, when he was attorney general, he had profecuted an agent-victualler for taking five per cent. on all the rum furnished to the army in the war before laft; and he was obliged to refund. He had also pro

fecuted